BigRedBuster Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said: Quote Whoever is prepared to make the national cause his own to such an extent that he knows no higher ideal than the welfare of the nation; whoever has understood our great national anthem, “Deutschland ueber Alles,” to mean that nothing in the wide world surpasses in his eyes this Germany, people and land — that man is a Socialist. If being a Nazi was being a socialist then why did Hitler say that? I agree with you that hew as a fascist. However, I've never seen that quote before. I'm struggling to understand how that doesn't describe what Hitler demanded of the German people. Can you explain where I'm wrong? He continually preached that the German people should follow him to make Germany a great country and making Germany great again, is worth all of their sacrifices. Kind of...you know....."Make Germany Great Again". Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said: Nah...this is really ignorant man. I gotta tell you, I'm disappointed in your sentiments here. They're woefully inept in their conclusion and totally misinformed. NAZIS Nazi's were not socialists at all. Period. Repeat it again. Nazi's were not socialists. There is no shape or form of them that was socialist. They were fascists...nationalistic fascists. Here is a quote from one of Hitlers speeches: If being a Nazi was being a socialist then why did Hitler say that? In his 2010 book Hitler: A Biography, British historian Ian Kershaw wrote: COMMUNISM In order to look at communism, it's important to look at the ten planks of Marxist Communism: Abolish private property A heavy progressive income tax Abolish all rights of inheritance Confiscate the property of emigrants and rebels Centralization of credit in the hands of the state Centralization of the means of communication and transportation Extension of state-controlled labor Equal obligation of work Abolish differences between country and city populations Government control of education None of those are on tap for Bernie Sanders or any of the candidates...it's pretty clear that socialism does not equal communism in this country. Just the same, #1 is already threatened through eminent domain #2 is already in play with income taxes #3 is under threat from estate taxes #4 already happens with law enforcement drug and other crime seizures #5 has the Federal reserve which controls interest rate that the entire credit market uses as an indicator to loan money #6 sees the government monopolize train transport with Amtrak and postal matters with USPS...so monopolies there...don't get me started on the stupid FCC which decides how we can and can't talk to one another over telecomm #7 is actually not too bad..only around 20% of America works for the government...but that number continues to grow #8 happened already when they called the draft during the world wars #9 I don't think has happened yet...but we do bailout banks and farms...and you could weakly argue that it's already happened...but I don't think there's evidence enough #10 already happens with state and federal mandates for curriculum and standardized testing. In closing, we're pretty close to hitting some of the planks of communism already in America. So WTF are you afraid of? The word? The idea of it? Because we're already pretty close to being there. Being a socialist seems to make you think of things that it ISN'T....and I posted the above to challenge your ideas on what communism is. I didn't say Nazis were socialist, so let's get that out of the way. Regarding the things that are going on in the US that fit within the planks of communism, I'm literally against every single one of those. Instead of me listing off all the reasons socialism and communism are evil and inevitably end in tyranny and mass genocide of people by their own government, can you tell me any country or civilization in the history of mankind that has successfully implemented socialism and/or communism? And please don't say the native Americans because I went down that road on a different site last week... 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Why should we keep the same healthcare program when all of those countries have proven that they can provide better healthcare at about 1/3 of the price? Like I've said, I think our current healthcare system is the worst of all possible systems and needs changed. I'd ideally be in favor of a free market based model (which ours is not) with transparency in pricing and some sort of safety net. Unfortunately, the chances of that happening appear to be very slim, so I'm not inherently opposed to the idea of universal health care, but I do think that advocated of it are being disingenuous and not acknowledging the unintended consequences that a medicare for all system would come with. I definitely don't buy the pitch that prices would magically go down as a result - there are many many other factors that cause our healthcare and medication prices to be super high, a few of which I've touched on previously. Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said: That's a straw man...it's not what we're talking about. What I posted and you didn't read is a definition of communism and why Nazi's weren't socialist. Reason I did this? You compared the idea of socialism to communism and the nazi party. I wanted to make sure you understood why you were WRONG to do that. I didn't compare them. I simply said that someone who identifies as socialist or communist should receive the same or similar backlash that someone does when they identify as nazi. 1 Link to comment
Landlord Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 35 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: and a couple of them actually rank higher on the economic freedom index than the US. 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Just now, BlitzFirst said: And I showed you why communism isn't socialism.. and why Nazi's aren't socialists. So, why should a person who identifies as a socialist get the same flak as those who are commies or nazi's? Literal dictionary definition of socialism: (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism. And then look at the actual evidence of socialist experiments in countries around the world - the most recent example being Venezuela obviously, even though I hate to beat a dead horse 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 This thread got so weird just now. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: Unfortunately, the chances of that happening appear to be very slim, so I'm not inherently opposed to the idea of universal health care, but I do think that advocated of it are being disingenuous and not acknowledging the unintended consequences that a medicare for all system would come with. And, what would those unintended consequences be? 10 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: I definitely don't buy the pitch that prices would magically go down as a result - there are many many other factors that cause our healthcare and medication prices to be super high, a few of which I've touched on previously. You're right. They wouldn't magically go down. It's not magic. It's simple economics and cost accounting and has been proven so in every other developed country in the world. Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 19 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: Instead of me listing off all the reasons socialism and communism are evil and inevitably end in tyranny and mass genocide of people by their own government, can you tell me any country or civilization in the history of mankind that has successfully implemented socialism and/or communism? And please don't say the native Americans because I went down that road on a different site last week... 49 minutes ago, Frott Scost said: Do you consider Canada, France, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, UK, etc socialist? If we are talking about democratic candidates, none are more 'socialist' than these countries Frott Scost listed, and none of those countries governments are committing genocide. 1 Link to comment
Ratt Mhule Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 @ActualCornHusker I just want to thank you for sticking by your views, even if I disagree, and not taking your ball and going home. This type of dialogue is needed and I for one appreciate it. I hope you don't feel like Im attacking you. 2 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 58 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said: Pete Buttigieg says he’s open to sending U.S. troops to Mexico https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article237463004.html People on twitter saying that his plan is to bring back the draft to do this. What a moron. From the article Quote His campaign later clarified that Buttigieg would only be open to military use as a “last resort” in response to Mexican cartel violence or an outside threat that endangers the country’s security. 1 1 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Mayor Pete up 10 pts over other in NH poll. Plus I believe he is leading in Iowa. This could be interesting. https://www.wmur.com/article/saint-anselm-poll-buttigieg-surges-to-10-percentage-point-lead-over-biden-warren-in-nh/29849189 Is America ready for a openly gay president asks this article. Are we?? https://news.yahoo.com/america-ready-gay-president-buttigieg-surge-poses-181139032.html 2 Link to comment
Ratt Mhule Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 So what does Platitude Pete have to say about this since, you know, its his home state. *crickets* 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 16 hours ago, Frott Scost said: @ActualCornHusker I just want to thank you for sticking by your views, even if I disagree, and not taking your ball and going home. This type of dialogue is needed and I for one appreciate it. I hope you don't feel like Im attacking you. Not at all. It's definitely been a challenging conversation as i view the world through a different lens than a lot of the people here, but i agree, these conversations are good to have. 4 1 Link to comment
Nebfanatic Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 15 hours ago, BlitzFirst said: lol no. 255 Democrats polled. NH is not going to go for that...they've always been a Sanders state. Don't think it has anything to do with Pete being gay though. He just isn't that great of a candidate. 1 Link to comment
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