teachercd Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Hmmmm....wonder if people in all those socialistic societies have to decide if they need to pay rent or pay for life saving drugs. Some of the drug prices are crazy!!! I think my Dad had one awhile back, like some small tube of something, it was like 1,800 dollars. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, teachercd said: Some of the drug prices are crazy!!! I think my Dad had one awhile back, like some small tube of something, it was like 1,800 dollars. Yeah......and if he doesn't pay that, there won't be any future advancements in medical technology. Tell your Dad thanks or me. Link to comment
teachercd Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, BigRedBuster said: Yeah......and if he doesn't pay that, there won't be any future advancements in medical technology. Tell your Dad thanks or me. He said "Don't mention it" Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I wonder how much the great medical advancements the US has made benefited the people these 34 million know. 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: @ActualCornHusker are you actually saying that if Americans paid the same as these other countries, no new advancements would be made? I've said multiple times that our current system is the worst of all possible options, and it's far from an actual free market. It's over-regulated, over-protected, over-lobbied, etc. The high prices of our current system are due to lack of transparency in pricing and cronyism due to the government being too involved. The true results of an actual free market don't lie. Quote The first policy—price tags—is a necessary prerequisite for competition and efficiency. Under our current system, it’s nearly impossible for people with health insurance to find out in advance what anything covered by their insurance will end up costing. Patients have no way to comparison shop for procedures covered by insurance, and providers are under little pressure to lower costs. By contrast, there is intense competition among the providers of medical services like LASIK eye surgery that aren’t covered by health insurance. For those procedures, providers must compete for market share and profits by figuring out ways to improve efficiency and lower prices. They must also advertise to get customers in the door, and must ensure high quality to generate customer loyalty and benefit from word of mouth. That’s why the price of LASIK eye surgery, as just one example, has fallen so dramatically even as quality has soared. Adjusted for inflation, LASIK cost nearly $4,000 per eye when it made its debut in the 1990s. These days, the average price is around $2,000 per eye and you can get it done for as little as $1,000 on sale. By contrast, ask yourself what a colonoscopy or knee replacement will cost you. There’s no way to tell. LINK Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, ActualCornHusker said: Socialism is Not ‘Public Roads’ and '911 Service' Wait.....It took me a little bit to click on this. This is your evidence that none of what we have mentioned ins socialism? Really????? no.....seriously???? The entire opinion piece was based on this quote: Quote “In their guide, the writers and editors of Jacobin also try to dispel some of the confusion related to socialism. In particular, they argue, many people tend to associate any kind of government institution, even the DMV, with socialism. But just because it’s a part of the government doesn’t make it socialist.” BUT....every dang time anything is EVER brought up that the government should spend money on, one side yells SOCIALISM!!!!! Meanwhile....then they point to this as evidence that what we have always spent money in ISN'T actually socialism??? Wow.....what a mental gymnastics feat. 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, BigRedBuster said: Wait.....It took me a little bit to click on this. This is your evidence that none of what we have mentioned ins socialism? Really????? no.....seriously???? The entire opinion piece was based on this quote: BUT....every dang time anything is EVER brought up that the government should spend money on, one side yells SOCIALISM!!!!! Meanwhile....then they point to this as evidence that what we have always spent money in ISN'T actually socialism??? Wow.....what a mental gymnastics feat. Not what I did, so don't lump me into that group Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, ActualCornHusker said: I've said multiple times that our current system is the worst of all possible options, and it's far from an actual free market. It's over-regulated, over-protected, over-lobbied, etc. The high prices of our current system are due to lack of transparency in pricing and cronyism due to the government being too involved. The true results of an actual free market don't lie. Yeah...I hear this a lot. It actually used to be another talking point I used to try to sell. Tell me this. An hour from now, you have a heart attack and need to be taken to the hospital for heart surgery. If the information is available. Is your family going to say...."well....wait just a second. I want to look at the cost between rushing you to various Hospitals. Maybe it would be cheaper if we used Dr. Smith instead of Dr. Jones. I just don't know......maybe we should wait till tomorrow and see if they will lower their prices. They seem awfully pushy in their sales pitch saying we need to do this RIGHT NOW. I think they are just trying to get us to pay more. Let's wait." News to you. Even if you had every bit of information available to you, healthcare is a pathetically HORRIBLE example of a market that should be free market and unregulated. And....I might add....usually I'm on the side of wanting more of that. Not with this. 4 minutes ago, ActualCornHusker said: Not what I did, so don't lump me into that group But...you're the one that linked this article that tries to make that argument. Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said: Yeah...I hear this a lot. It actually used to be another talking point I used to try to sell. Tell me this. An hour from now, you have a heart attack and need to be taken to the hospital for heart surgery. If the information is available. Is your family going to say...."well....wait just a second. I want to look at the cost between rushing you to various Hospitals. Maybe it would be cheaper if we used Dr. Smith instead of Dr. Jones. I just don't know......maybe we should wait till tomorrow and see if they will lower their prices. They seem awfully pushy in their sales pitch saying we need to do this RIGHT NOW. I think they are just trying to get us to pay more. Let's wait." News to you. Even if you had every bit of information available to you, healthcare is a pathetically HORRIBLE example of a market that should be free market and unregulated. And....I might add....usually I'm on the side of wanting more of that. Not with this. No, but if there are 2 hospitals similar distance away (or more than 2) and their prices are disclosed, my family could choose to go to the one where the heart surgery is cheaper. Or conversely, if the more expensive hospital is better known for quality of care, I could choose that one instead. NOTHING is transparent, and that's a huge problem, is it not?... Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, ActualCornHusker said: No, but if there are 2 hospitals similar distance away (or more than 2) and their prices are disclosed, my family could choose to go to the one where the heart surgery is cheaper. Or conversely, if the more expensive hospital is better known for quality of care, I could choose that one instead. NOTHING is transparent, and that's a huge problem, is it not?... Your wife and kids are distraught from being called by officials saying you're being rushed to the hospital and their first thought is.....ummmm...maybe go here, it's cheaper. Sorry for the condition of your marriage. 1 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, BigRedBuster said: Your wife and kids are distraught from being called by officials saying you're being rushed to the hospital and their first thought is.....ummmm...maybe go here, it's cheaper. Sorry for the condition of your marriage. I laughed. But my point stands Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, ActualCornHusker said: I laughed. But my point stands The laughable part is that a segment of our population thinks that is an acceptable system. 1 Link to comment
ActualCornHusker Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, BigRedBuster said: The laughable part is that a segment of our population thinks that is an acceptable system. You're allowed to have your own opinion on the matter. I already said I'm not against universal health care (I used to be vehemently opposed), but there are a ton of questions that need to be answered, some of which I listed earlier. And even with universal healthcare, as has been pointed out, there are a LOT of different models within that realm. Not thinking things through and jumping in head first is likely to end up badly... Link to comment
teachercd Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Seriously though, prices should be listed at hospitals and doctors offices and dentist offices, just like they are at a fast food restaurant. The only place where you get less transparency on prices are if you are looking to join a new gym. 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, ActualCornHusker said: You're allowed to have your own opinion on the matter. I already said I'm not against universal health care (I used to be vehemently opposed), but there are a ton of questions that need to be answered, some of which I listed earlier. And even with universal healthcare, as has been pointed out, there are a LOT of different models within that realm. Not thinking things through and jumping in head first is likely to end up badly... Yep...we need to think it through and I'm glad you have an open mind. It's great that there are so many countries having success with other systems so we can choose. It's like going into Nebraska Furniture Mart to buy a washer and dryer.. We have everything available to us and can pick and choose. 10 minutes ago, teachercd said: Seriously though, prices should be listed at hospitals and doctors offices and dentist offices, just like they are at a fast food restaurant. The only place where you get less transparency on prices are if you are looking to join a new gym. Don't disagree. Link to comment
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