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The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election


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17 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

So, roughly where it was at this time in about 2016.

 

Right? When did Trump start to lead the polls? When did America basically lose its mind?

We knew about Trump at this time in 2016 to a degree, but honestly he was a bit of an unknown compared to now. People just said oh he is a successful businessman, he will surround himself with the best, he will grow up in office. Now it's much easier to see through alot of those rationales 

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17 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

So, roughly where it was at this time in about 2016.

 

Right? When did Trump start to lead the polls? When did America basically lose its mind?

trump started to take the lead when the investigation into hillarys e-mails was re-opened a week (or so) before the election.

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Consider the source  -  this article says Obama is cool on the idea of Bernie being the nominee.  Perhaps no big surprise but the source says Obama doesn't believe Bernie can beat Trump.   We'll see if this become apparent if Bernie wins Iowa / NH. 

 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/obama-feels-sanders-is-unfit-to-battle-trump-and-he-has-told-people-he-might-say-so-publicly

Quote

 

Former President Barack Obama has remained mostly silent through the early stages of the Democratic race to unseat Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential election but that may soon change, friends and associates tell FOX Business, as avowed socialist Bernie Sanders gains in national polls and seems poised to obtain front-runner status.

The people who spoke on the condition of anonymity say Obama's preference had always been to lay low through the primaries aside from making some broad comments as he did in November of last year when, according to a report in The New York Times, the former two-term president, best known for expanding the size of government and his eponymous health care mandate, appeared genuinely worried about some of the increasingly leftist proposals being touted on the campaign trail from Sanders, the US senator from Vermont, and to some extent, Elizabeth Warren, the US senator from Massachusetts.

"The average American doesn't think we have to completely tear down the system to remake it," the Times quoted Obama, who was speaking at a gathering of Democratic donors.

People close to Obama point out that he has always said that he will support the Democratic nominee, whoever that may be. They also point out that Obama's opinion of Warren has softened since November, and he is said to be growing comfortable with endorsing her fully if she should win the nomination.

But, these people add, he has recently grown even more wary of Sanders as the Vermont senator appears to be gaining momentum in polls and the Democratic primaries begin to heat up with the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary both in February.

Obama has told people in private that Sanders is both temperamentally and politically unfit to beat Trump in the 2020 general election, these people say. Among his concerns are Sanders’ strident form of politics and confrontational manners where he was known not to seek compromise during his long years in the US senate. Meanwhile, Obama is said to worry that Sanders’ far-left policies, which include massive tax increases, free college tuition and massive student debt forgiveness, would alienate even traditional Democratic voters. And may alienate them enough to re-elect Trump, who is seeking a second term despite historically low favorability ratings given his own bombastic style, these people tell FOX Business.

With that, Obama is weighing a more forceful rebuke of Sanders as the candidate to lead the Democrats in 2020, according to people who have spoken to the former president. It’s unclear if Obama will name Sanders specifically if he does indeed decide to make a statement or if he will address the matter in more general terms as he did in November. Obama may also decide to remain silent, particularly if Joe Biden, his former vice president, or Warren begin to overtake Sanders in the early primaries and in polling.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

What did you think? 

 

About what I did before.

 

Bernie is a very well spoken dude, go figure he's an old politician.  He has some really great ideas. I just take issue with how easy he thinks some of those things can be obtained without affecting the general population.

 

Joe brings up minimum wage tier based off of under 18yrs and 18+ and Bernie shoots that down even though I think it makes a lot of sense if you want to eliminate the idea that adults are living off min wage and kids don't need it.  It gets min wage lifers a decent pay grade while still cutting business some slack in terma of the HS kid that you replace every 7 months plus doesn't encourage people to seek out min wage jobs because they pay just as well as the other jobs out there (which Bernie doesn't seem to think would be an issue).  And $15hr is great in theory, but how do non retail chains or mom and pop shops necessarily afford that.  Maybe it could work, but I see a lot of those small businesses folding because of it which wouldn't build up those small town areas he also talks about building up.  He talks about making Amazon pay taxes, absolutely they should.  But then factor in the 15hr wage rate and these giants take a hit that they will try to recoup on us in some shape or form.

 

All about free education and student loan forgiveness.  Just can't imagine it would work as quickly as he thinks.

 

He wants extensive background checks for firearms, great with me.  Prevent multiple gun show purchases that can then be sold privately to people who shouldn't have then, also great.  Wants to ban assault weapons, fine in theory but I'd like to know how he classifies them.  Says he believes in 2nd amendment then immediately says we all just need to make sacrifices.

 

Admits we have a mental health problem and it could be addressed with proper healthcare, agreed.  Thinks kids are overly medicated, agree to a degree.

 

Legalize potand decriminalize it, yes that's good.

 

His ideas on fossil fuels, we need alternatives soon.  Yes we absolutely do.  Making them stop selling cold turkey, yeah never gonna happen.  Good idea, not a strong plan in place to do it.  Same with his natural energy ideas.

 

A lot of good ideas.  But when it comes down to execution I think it's more of the same.  Tax the rich to reward the lower middle and lower class.  That's great in theory, but you can't do that without it hurting those you aim to help.

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52 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

About what I did before.

 

Bernie is a very well spoken dude, go figure he's an old politician.  He has some really great ideas. I just take issue with how easy he thinks some of those things can be obtained without affecting the general population.

 

Joe brings up minimum wage tier based off of under 18yrs and 18+ and Bernie shoots that down even though I think it makes a lot of sense if you want to eliminate the idea that adults are living off min wage and kids don't need it.  It gets min wage lifers a decent pay grade while still cutting business some slack in terma of the HS kid that you replace every 7 months plus doesn't encourage people to seek out min wage jobs because they pay just as well as the other jobs out there (which Bernie doesn't seem to think would be an issue).  And $15hr is great in theory, but how do non retail chains or mom and pop shops necessarily afford that.  Maybe it could work, but I see a lot of those small businesses folding because of it which wouldn't build up those small town areas he also talks about building up.  He talks about making Amazon pay taxes, absolutely they should.  But then factor in the 15hr wage rate and these giants take a hit that they will try to recoup on us in some shape or form.

 

All about free education and student loan forgiveness.  Just can't imagine it would work as quickly as he thinks.

 

He wants extensive background checks for firearms, great with me.  Prevent multiple gun show purchases that can then be sold privately to people who shouldn't have then, also great.  Wants to ban assault weapons, fine in theory but I'd like to know how he classifies them.  Says he believes in 2nd amendment then immediately says we all just need to make sacrifices.

 

Admits we have a mental health problem and it could be addressed with proper healthcare, agreed.  Thinks kids are overly medicated, agree to a degree.

 

Legalize potand decriminalize it, yes that's good.

 

His ideas on fossil fuels, we need alternatives soon.  Yes we absolutely do.  Making them stop selling cold turkey, yeah never gonna happen.  Good idea, not a strong plan in place to do it.  Same with his natural energy ideas.

 

A lot of good ideas.  But when it comes down to execution I think it's more of the same.  Tax the rich to reward the lower middle and lower class.  That's great in theory, but you can't do that without it hurting those you aim to help.

I think he does have a solid plan to execute his ideas but your views here are entirely fair and well thought out. Thank you for sharing.

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On 1/24/2020 at 3:30 PM, Redux said:

 

About what I did before.

 

Bernie is a very well spoken dude, go figure he's an old politician.  He has some really great ideas. I just take issue with how easy he thinks some of those things can be obtained without affecting the general population.

 

Joe brings up minimum wage tier based off of under 18yrs and 18+ and Bernie shoots that down even though I think it makes a lot of sense if you want to eliminate the idea that adults are living off min wage and kids don't need it.  It gets min wage lifers a decent pay grade while still cutting business some slack in terma of the HS kid that you replace every 7 months plus doesn't encourage people to seek out min wage jobs because they pay just as well as the other jobs out there (which Bernie doesn't seem to think would be an issue).  And $15hr is great in theory, but how do non retail chains or mom and pop shops necessarily afford that.  Maybe it could work, but I see a lot of those small businesses folding because of it which wouldn't build up those small town areas he also talks about building up.  He talks about making Amazon pay taxes, absolutely they should.  But then factor in the 15hr wage rate and these giants take a hit that they will try to recoup on us in some shape or form.

 

All about free education and student loan forgiveness.  Just can't imagine it would work as quickly as he thinks.

 

He wants extensive background checks for firearms, great with me.  Prevent multiple gun show purchases that can then be sold privately to people who shouldn't have then, also great.  Wants to ban assault weapons, fine in theory but I'd like to know how he classifies them.  Says he believes in 2nd amendment then immediately says we all just need to make sacrifices.

 

Admits we have a mental health problem and it could be addressed with proper healthcare, agreed.  Thinks kids are overly medicated, agree to a degree.

 

Legalize potand decriminalize it, yes that's good.

 

His ideas on fossil fuels, we need alternatives soon.  Yes we absolutely do.  Making them stop selling cold turkey, yeah never gonna happen.  Good idea, not a strong plan in place to do it.  Same with his natural energy ideas.

 

A lot of good ideas.  But when it comes down to execution I think it's more of the same.  Tax the rich to reward the lower middle and lower class.  That's great in theory, but you can't do that without it hurting those you aim to help.

 

Kudos on putting down such a detailed take, Redux.

 

I think one area we can all agree on (I'd hope, anyway) is that while Bernie is mostly right on a lot of issues his path to getting there isn't very realistic. Which seems like your beef. If a lot of his ideas are to actually come to fruition, they're going to have to be altered, whittled down or rearranged to make them palatable to enough different pols to actually get them passed. Not everything can be done by executive order.

 

If your biggest beef is his "how"... that's not too bad. You could still vote for him in good conscience knowing he'll work towards his stated goals. He's just going to have to make some changes to the how. 

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On 1/24/2020 at 1:30 PM, Redux said:

 

About what I did before.

 

Bernie is a very well spoken dude, go figure he's an old politician.  He has some really great ideas. I just take issue with how easy he thinks some of those things can be obtained without affecting the general population.

 

Joe brings up minimum wage tier based off of under 18yrs and 18+ and Bernie shoots that down even though I think it makes a lot of sense if you want to eliminate the idea that adults are living off min wage and kids don't need it.  It gets min wage lifers a decent pay grade while still cutting business some slack in terma of the HS kid that you replace every 7 months plus doesn't encourage people to seek out min wage jobs because they pay just as well as the other jobs out there (which Bernie doesn't seem to think would be an issue).  And $15hr is great in theory, but how do non retail chains or mom and pop shops necessarily afford that.  Maybe it could work, but I see a lot of those small businesses folding because of it which wouldn't build up those small town areas he also talks about building up.  He talks about making Amazon pay taxes, absolutely they should.  But then factor in the 15hr wage rate and these giants take a hit that they will try to recoup on us in some shape or form.

 

All about free education and student loan forgiveness.  Just can't imagine it would work as quickly as he thinks.

 

He wants extensive background checks for firearms, great with me.  Prevent multiple gun show purchases that can then be sold privately to people who shouldn't have then, also great.  Wants to ban assault weapons, fine in theory but I'd like to know how he classifies them.  Says he believes in 2nd amendment then immediately says we all just need to make sacrifices.

 

Admits we have a mental health problem and it could be addressed with proper healthcare, agreed.  Thinks kids are overly medicated, agree to a degree.

 

Legalize potand decriminalize it, yes that's good.

 

His ideas on fossil fuels, we need alternatives soon.  Yes we absolutely do.  Making them stop selling cold turkey, yeah never gonna happen.  Good idea, not a strong plan in place to do it.  Same with his natural energy ideas.

 

A lot of good ideas.  But when it comes down to execution I think it's more of the same.  Tax the rich to reward the lower middle and lower class.  That's great in theory, but you can't do that without it hurting those you aim to help.

 

 

 

 

 

These are all reasonable positions and like someone else said, if your biggest disagreements with him are, "yeah but how are you actually going to do that", then that's a good candidate you should consider voting for imo. 

 

Do you still think he's a 'commie', which I think you said a few days ago? Would you consider voting for him? Even if you think he's too idealistic are there any other candidates you agree with more than him or who you think have more integrity or are more trustworthy at least to try and do what they say? 

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Ladies and gentleman of the jury. THIS is why Bernie would 100% beat Trump in the general. Guess which states care the most about trade?  Vote Bernie or take the chance with Biden in the rust belt being hammered on his voting record on trade? The choice is easy if you care about beating Trump. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Frott Scost said:

Ladies and gentleman of the jury. THIS is why Bernie would 100% beat Trump in the general. Guess which states care the most about trade?  Vote Bernie or take the chance with Biden in the rust belt being hammered on his voting record on trade? The choice is easy if you care about beating Trump. 

 

 

It's strange how he has been sorta championing for Bernie on twitter lately. Reverse psychology?

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