The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[Landlord]

37 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

You're welcome to think that, and you're welcome to congratulate yourself for voting your conscience when Trump gets reelected.

 

And all those people he's going to continue to harm, they won't be your fault, because you voted your conscience.

 

 

Do you even read the posts? I've made clear a few times just in this interaction and at least one-two other times in P&R that I'll vote for Biden if he's the nominee

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Landlord said:

Do you even read the posts?

 

Yes. I responded to this:

 

Quote

I know lots of reasonable, sharp people who are choosing not to be forced to vote for Biden. I'm sure you do too.

 

I don't know any "reasonable, sharp people" who will vote in a way that reelects Trump.

[Ratt Mhule]

Im not sure where AOC running the treasury dept even came from as I did not say it should be her. If anything she should primary Schumer and get his weak a$$ out of the senate and into retirement. 

[BigRedBuster]

Just now, Frott Scost said:

Im not sure where AOC running the treasury dept even came from as I did not say it should be her. If anything she should primary Schumer and get his weak a$$ out of the senate. 

I mentioned it as something I THOUGHT everyone would agree wouldn’t be a good idea. 
 

Guess I shouldn’t make assumptions. 

[Ratt Mhule]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I mentioned it as something I THOUGHT everyone would agree wouldn’t be a good idea. 
 

Guess I shouldn’t make assumptions. 

Nobody thinks its a good idea though so your assumption was correct. But I think everyone could agree that Bidens leaked list for treasury secretary is not good either, other than Warren but I think the only reason she is on the list is so she doesnt endorse Bernie. 

[Danny Bateman]

4 hours ago, Landlord said:

Which is better, 8 years of Trump and then nobody like Trump ever again? 

 

Or four years of Trump, four years of a milque toast Democrat, then eight years of someone Trump paved the way for? 

 

This presupposes a lot that none of us are privy to. To the point of being useless.

 

4 hours ago, Landlord said:

Biden is more than just "not the solution". He is the system. Voting for Biden is perpetuating the system. And that's probably fine as an immediate emergency. Or maybe it's not, and the system will always conveniently have a short-term crisis that doesn't allow us to think big picture but instead keep working as the gears in its machinations. 

 

No doubt there are lots of people who feel this way.

 

The problem is if we decide not to push for better, the system gets a whole lot worse. We get one shot at toppling Trump. Not everyone can comfortably coast through another four years of the status quo with him. 

 

And if what you're wanting is progressive reforms to improve the system, forget about it. More hardline conservative judges confirmed and likely a 7-2 SCOTUS that will last for decades, likely my entire adult life. That means anything progressive you care about is likely to work it's way up the circuits to SCOTUS and then slapped down. If you think the system is broken now, just wait until we get another four years worth of young and in many cases unqualified idealogues on the courts for decades dedicated to keeping it that way.

 

Your choices are a milquetoast moderate (I'd argue he's offering a robustly progressive agenda, not that he gets credit for it) that can start chipping away at undoing the damage of Trump piece by piece or the system punching you in the face anytime we try to do something you agree with for the foreseeable future.

[RedDenver]

11 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

Your choices are a milquetoast moderate (I'd argue he's offering a robustly progressive agenda, not that he gets credit for it) that can start chipping away at undoing the damage of Trump piece by piece or the system punching you in the face anytime we try to do something you agree with for the foreseeable future.

I'd say my choices are a center-right "moderate" or right-wing moron. Both will punch us in the face, just one is more vicious than the other.

 

And you can argue all you want that Biden is some sort of progressive, but he's not. He'd veto Medicare for All even if it somehow got through Congress:

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

4 hours ago, Nebfanatic said:

Question for my huskerboarders here. Alot of talk about Sanders needing to drop out and he is promoting division by staying in. Would Biden drop out at this point if the roles were reversed? 

Probably.  The Ds are a very know-you-place types in Presidential politics.  We've had exactly 1 major upstart who prevailed (Obama > Hilary) since 1992 (and Bill Clinton didn't really qualify as an upstart back then either.  If the also-rans can become didn't-runs before Super Tuesday to help Biden then Joe would be expected to do the same.   Note how the shoe was not on the other foot.  Jeb Flakes didn't drop out to help Trump but because his candidacy had become a parody of himself. 

[Redux]

2 hours ago, knapplc said:

I don't know any "reasonable, sharp people" who will vote in a way that reelects Trump.

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Danny Bateman]

4 hours ago, RedDenver said:

I'd say my choices are a center-right "moderate" or right-wing moron. Both will punch us in the face, just one is more vicious than the other.

 

And you can argue all you want that Biden is some sort of progressive, but he's not. He'd veto Medicare for All even if it somehow got through Congress:

 

 

So anybody that doesn't support a Bernie bill isn't a progressive? I'm not going to agree anyone that doesn't support a far more leftist bill than anywhere else in the developed world has can't be progressive. Plus M4A getting through the Senate is absolutely laughable and thus this bill being on Biden's desk is pretty well an unrealistic hypothetical.

 

Biden is center-left and you're ridiculous for arguing otherwise.

 

I don't care about him playing to the center in an attempt to build a winning coalition including the people who care about their taxes going up.

 

I also don't care about what Ball and this Saagar guy say when they're paid puppets for a right-wing rag like the Hill. I know they seem like a good non-MSM news source but the truth is that the HIll has become a garbage pro-Trump publication and whatever they produce should be viewed as such.

 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

7 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

So anybody that doesn't support a Bernie bill isn't a progressive? I'm not going to agree anyone that doesn't support a far more leftist bill than anywhere else in the developed world has can't be progressive. Plus M4A getting through the Senate is absolutely laughable and thus this bill being on Biden's desk is pretty well an unrealistic hypothetical.

 

Biden is center-left and you're ridiculous for arguing otherwise.

 

I don't care about him playing to the center in an attempt to build a winning coalition including the people who care about their taxes going up.

 

I also don't care about what Ball and this Saagar guy say when they're paid puppets for a right-wing rag like the Hill. I know they seem like a good non-MSM news source but the truth is that the HIll has become a garbage pro-Trump publication and whatever they produce should be viewed as such.

 

 

I think a lot of peoples eyes are being opened to the horrors of our healthcare system with this pandemic going on, including republicans. I think once this is finally over, the calls for reform will be deafening to the point where congress cant hide behind the industries anymore. We will see. 
 

And your last paragraph is pure nonsense. That show is about as non-Trump as you can get. They rarely mention Trump on that show. It is a populist media source which is much better than corporate media because you know their biases up front (Ball on the left and Saggar on the right) unlike cable media that try and hide it but its so blantantly obvious to someone with functioning eyeballs. 

[Danny Bateman]

10 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

I think a lot of peoples eyes are being opened to the horrors of our healthcare system with this pandemic going on, including republicans. I think once this is finally over, the calls for reform will be deafening to the point where congress cant hide behind the industries anymore. We will see. 
 

And your last paragraph is pure nonsense. That show is about as non-Trump as you can get. They rarely mention Trump on that show. It is a populist media source which is much better than corporate media because you know their biases up front (Ball on the left and Saggar on the right) unlike cable media that try and hide it but its so blantantly obvious to someone with functioning eyeballs. 

 

It's certainly not been good for us with this coronavirus stuff and a lot of that is due to incompetent leadership. I'm skeptical it's going to change any Republican minds when they won't even allow a paid sick leave bill to pass but time will tell in that regard.

 

My only point was to consider the source. The Hill has become a pro-Trump media outlet and both of them are paid by it. I'm not surprised a progressive commentator and a conservative commentator at a pro-Trump rag don't have a lot of nice things to say about Biden.

[Ratt Mhule]

23 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

It's certainly not been good for us with this coronavirus stuff and a lot of that is due to incompetent leadership. I'm skeptical it's going to change any Republican minds when they won't even allow a paid sick leave bill to pass but time will tell in that regard.

 

My only point was to consider the source. The Hill has become a pro-Trump media outlet and both of them are paid by it. I'm not surprised a progressive commentator and a conservative commentator at a pro-Trump rag don't have a lot of nice things to say about Biden.

Im talking about republican voters. Not congress. The congress will always disagree unless political pressure is pit on them and its up to the people to stand up and demand change. That is when you get change. 
 

I mean if you want to play that game, cable

media doesnt have many nice things to say about Sanders.  It works both ways. 

[TGHusker]

14 hours ago, knapplc said:

 

 

If this movement is sustainable and not just the product of one man's charisma, another candidate will emerge for people to get behind in 2024. I think there's a much higher chance of electing that person than Bernie, just like there's a much higher chance of electing Biden than Hillary - one is simply more likable than the other.

I agree with this.  I think the nation as a whole is trending that way in spite of what some of us more right to center people may desire. Demographics alone will push us that way - a younger population that is more 'brown' will be tipping more states into the blue category.  I heard a story on NPR this morning that for the 1st time ever, the younger generation of voters will out number the Baby Boomers. I didn't hear what defined young but I'm thinking it was the 18-40 age group.    

I think we will see one of this year's candidates take up the progressive mantle plus there are others who are standing in the wings.  I don't think it will be a AOC or the rest of her 'group of 4' however.  By today's standard - Warren is still young - and maybe at age 74 she may give it another shot but I think it would likely be someone else. 

Biden is just a stop gap / a temporary pause to the march towards the more left leaning progressive movement.  He is the 'finger in the dike (middle finger at that) to stop another 4 years of trump.  Of course in the ying and yang of politics, there could be a right of center reaction to all of the movement to the left or to what happens during the Biden term and 2024 may not play out as well for the progressives.  First we got to get trump out of office and then allow both parties to reset.  I hope the GOP learns some lessons from a massive defeat in 2020.