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The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election


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1 hour ago, Frott Scost said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Frott Scost said:

 

 

Also, not surprised this lot is out here making excuses for Rogan.

 

How about their typical response where they make this BIden's fault they actually point out that Rogan's logic is bullsh#t and have him take some responsibility for his own awful decision?

 

I can't even with these clowns. Pretty much the Fox News of the left at this point.

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i had no idea that bernies plans are closer to trumps ideas than they are to bidens.   i was thinking that biden was much closer to bernie than trump is.   how 15% of bernie supporters will vote for the guy farthest from bernies ideals makes no sense at all to me.   oh well.   it's their vote. if they want to stick it to the dems so bad it will only cost them an extremely far right wing supreme court for the rest of their lives.  good luck progressives.    

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1 hour ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

Does he not get paid for commentating? I assumed some of those fees were paid by the UFC. Regardless the point is BIden's views are shaped in part by the company he keeps, including White.

 

I'm sorry, the notion that Rogan is any kind of leftist lost me at him saying he'd vote for Donald f#cking Trump and citing a bunch of bullsh#t as the reason why.

 

 

 

Again, haven't heard/seen the bit about him voting for Trump, but here's he himself:

 

 

 

 

 

He's also for single payer healthcare, comprehensive prison reform, free public college, UBI, etc. - also the first minute of this one:

 

 

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4 minutes ago, commando said:

i had no idea that bernies plans are closer to trumps ideas than they are to bidens.   i was thinking that biden was much closer to bernie than trump is.   how 15% of bernie supporters will vote for the guy farthest from bernies ideals makes no sense at all to me.   oh well.   it's their vote. if they want to stick it to the dems so bad it will only cost them an extremely far right wing supreme court for the rest of their lives.  good luck progressives.    

 

That chunk aren't actual progressives. They like Bernie for other reasons (anti-establishment, perceived honesty) or just hate Biden. They were never coming home if Bernie didn't win.

 

Rogan is just plain picking idiotic reasons to not vote for Biden for someone who is apparently a leftist.

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Being anti-establishment and being a "true" progressive are not mutually exclusive things. I'd even argue they're closer to mutually inclusive.

 

Edit: Also, let's be honest - the percentage of establishment/corporate democrats in office that would prefer Trump over Bernie isn't 0. 

 

Edit 2: Finally listened to the clip of Rogan. This is being blown out of proportion imo. He didn't say he will vote for Trump, he said (in response to someone saying they can't vote for Biden, but also can't vote for Trump), that he'd rather vote for Trump than Biden. I don't think that's meant to be taken literally. 

 

 

 

 

Third independent thought - knapp keeps making mention about how this election is different than all the others of the last 100 years. Which is true. Which, to me, begs the question - if this election is so different, then why is Biden doing the exact same thing as all the loser Democrat presidential nominees of the last few decades?

 

Biden, Clinton, Kerry, Gore - all felt entitled to people's votes even with uninspiring bland policy, and all lost because of their arrogance. Biden literally tells people not to vote for him, and in spirit dares people not to. This election is different, yet the Dem establishment is trotting out the same tested and failed approach.

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2 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

You can have healthcare that is not provided by employers without M4A. It's a public option and it's his current platform.

Of course you can, but a majority of Biden's own voters prefer M4A. My point is that Biden has the political room right now to make a big change on policy - in particular on healthcare. It's a move that appeals to his existing base and has the potential to move a lot of progressives. But I'm guessing he'll stick with the same policy Hillary ran on.

 

28 minutes ago, Landlord said:

Third independent thought - knapp keeps making mention about how this election is different than all the others of the last 100 years. Which is true. Which, to me, begs the question - if this election is so different, then why is Biden doing the exact same thing as all the loser Democrat presidential nominees of the last few decades?

 

Biden, Clinton, Kerry, Gore - all felt entitled to people's votes even with uninspiring bland policy, and all lost because of their arrogance. Biden literally tells people not to vote for him, and in spirit dares people not to. This election is different, yet the Dem establishment is trotting out the same tested and failed approach.

Yeah, I'm get strong 2004 Kerry v W vibes with Biden v Trump. And I think W actually had lower approval ratings than Trump does.

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3 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

You can have healthcare that is not provided by employers without M4A. It's a public option and it's his current platform.


How does a public option deal with affordability of healthcare? Not only does it raise taxes for everyone, even people not using it. It also keeps in place premiums and deductibles. Plus Bidens plan admittedly leaves 10 million people uninsured...its a garbage plan. 

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3 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

OK, set the enthusiasm piece aside. Point conceded - Trump's cult is extremely excited to vote for him. I'm not shocked.

 

Where is the evidence that Sanders performs best with independents by any significant margin?

 

that Here's a recent poll has Biden +11 with indies compared to Bernie in a general election. Here's one where Biden is +4 on Bernie in a general. Here's one where Bernie is up +2 over Biden with them in the primary (Biden still beats Trump by 1 with independents).

 

The evidence is a bit unclear on whether he would be better with swing voters. And Biden is outperforming him in nearly every swing state poll taken recently. Personally I don't care what coalition we cobble together, I just want the strongest candidate that will bring out the most voters.


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You are using recent polls. Bernie hasnt been relevant since South Carolina over a month ago. Of course his numbers are going to go down, hes lost. Im talking about polls from before voting started and it was anyones game. There is one I remember he was +18 with independents. Higher than all the other candidates. 

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I love that even when a person comes out and literally states that he is a liberal and has been for his entire life and is basically part of hollywood and has very firm stances on sooooo many things that align with being liberal...

 

Yet...some of you simply refuse to believe him and lump him into some other category. 

 

I mean...you see how sick that is, right?  You see the problem, right?

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6 hours ago, Frott Scost said:


We tried to warn you people that Bernie does best with independents which are not able to vote in some democratic primaries. The polls showed this. It would have been a slam dunk in November but democrats wanted to listen to corporate media about how electable Biden is and now they screwed up. New poll just came out this week that shows Trump has I think it was 58% extremely excited to vote for him in November and Biden had 24% extremely excited to vote for him. People will not leave work early or stand in a long line to vote for him. The democrats made their bed in 2016 and they didnt learn and now they made their bed in 2020. Will the learn in 2024? Probably not. 

The closed vs open primaries wouldn't have tipped the scales in 2016.  Sanders just would not widen his base.  

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15 hours ago, Frott Scost said:


Most americans dont follow politics so some people might think their life has neither improved or gotten worse under Trump so they dont feel the need to vote for Biden because their life wont improve under him either. So its the job of the candidate to convince someone who normally doesnt vote or on the fence that voting for them would improve their life. People care about themselves and their families. Someone who says they will veto healthcare for all doesnt make people think their life will improve. The people on huskerboard are a different breed because we all keep up with the times for the most part. 

I work with a LOT of folks like that Frott...And they laugh at Biden's gaffs and lack of known platform

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ROGAN: I’d rather vote for Trump than [Biden]. I don’t think he can handle anything. You’re relying entirely on his cabinet.

 

This kind of made me laugh....uhhh yeah give me Biden and competent cabinet over Trump. I don't think Trump can handle much of anything either (see: Covid 19), and he's surrounded himself with Kushner, Barr, Conway, Mnuchin, Miller - basically a cabinet of yes men who are trying to line their own pockets. Give me Biden + Competent cabinet everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. 

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15 hours ago, Landlord said:

Being anti-establishment and being a "true" progressive are not mutually exclusive things. I'd even argue they're closer to mutually inclusive.

 

Edit: Also, let's be honest - the percentage of establishment/corporate democrats in office that would prefer Trump over Bernie isn't 0.

 

Both fair points.  My overall point was that there are two distinct groups - progressives who just want to see progressive policies and people who don't necessarily like or want a ton of progressive policies but do view Bernie as a wrecking ball to the establishment and like that. Similar to a group of voters who supporter Trump in 2016.

 

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Edit 2: Finally listened to the clip of Rogan. This is being blown out of proportion imo. He didn't say he will vote for Trump, he said (in response to someone saying they can't vote for Biden, but also can't vote for Trump), that he'd rather vote for Trump than Biden. I don't think that's meant to be taken literally. 

 

Distinction without a difference. Rogan's words matter. Given what he said he seems more likely to vote for one than the other.

 

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Third independent thought - knapp keeps making mention about how this election is different than all the others of the last 100 years. Which is true. Which, to me, begs the question - if this election is so different, then why is Biden doing the exact same thing as all the loser Democrat presidential nominees of the last few decades?

 

Biden, Clinton, Kerry, Gore - all felt entitled to people's votes even with uninspiring bland policy, and all lost because of their arrogance. Biden literally tells people not to vote for him, and in spirit dares people not to. This election is different, yet the Dem establishment is trotting out the same tested and failed approach.


It is different.

 

In what way do you think Biden demonstrates a entitlement to people's votes? I disagree. When he got shellacked in all 3 early states prior to South Carolina, I didn't see him grasp at straws at why all the votes he was owed didn't come rolling in. He picked himself up, dusted himself off, owned the fact he got his tail whipped and moved on to keep doing the work necessary to win.

 

I don't think anyone demonstrated a entitlement or arrogance and expected to be anointed. Biden's campaign was on its deathbed after Nevada. If he was coasting on his arrogance and expecting to be anointed he wouldn't have come back from that.

 

Also short blurb on Kerry's specific weaknesses and why Biden isn't Kerry. The differences between Biden and Clinton is fairly obvious.
 

13 hours ago, Frott Scost said:

How does a public option deal with affordability of healthcare? Not only does it raise taxes for everyone, even people not using it. It also keeps in place premiums and deductibles. Plus Bidens plan admittedly leaves 10 million people uninsured...its a garbage plan. 

 

It's not garbage if I think it could actually pass into law and the current iteration of single-payer doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

 

Bernie's home state of Vermont aggressively tried to pass a single-payer plan for universal coverage. It failed because it was going to be too expensive and the governor would not support 11.5% payroll tax and 9% income tax increases that could've paid for it.

 

13 hours ago, Frott Scost said:

You are using recent polls. Bernie hasnt been relevant since South Carolina over a month ago. Of course his numbers are going to go down, hes lost. Im talking about polls from before voting started and it was anyones game. There is one I remember he was +18 with independents. Higher than all the other candidates. 

 

This is fair but the pendulum swings both ways. Polls reflect different points in time. Bernie's numbers were higher and have now gone down. Likewise if he had been the nominee, his numbers with indies or other voters could have gone down over time. Or gone up. We'll never know.

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