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The 2020 Presidential Election - Primaries

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Just now, knapplc said:

 

Most voters aren't Bernie supporters and don't know his speaking style, so when he behaves like that in a debate he comes across angry and unlikable.

 

If Bernie wanted us to vote for him, he should have worked harder to convince us.

I agree. Bernie needed to run a better campaign. He had Biden on the ropes, but let him off because he never wanted to go on the offensive and attack Biden.

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Just now, RedDenver said:

I agree. Bernie needed to run a better campaign. He had Biden on the ropes, but let him off because he never wanted to go on the offensive and attack Biden.

 

I don't think he ever did. He was just lucky enough to have favorable early matchups. Kinda like when Nebraska started out 7-0 under Riley. It was all an illusion.

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9 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

And thi$ i$ coming from a guy who has ab$olutely no incentive to $ay thing$ are over, right teach? :lol:

Ha...I want my 36 dollars!!!!

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15 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I don't think he ever did. He was just lucky enough to have favorable early matchups. Kinda like when Nebraska started out 7-0 under Riley. It was all an illusion.

 

Bernie's entire campaign was staked on winning a plurality of maybe 30-35% of the vote with enough moderates still in the race long enough that eventually his delegate lead became insurmountable and he pulled away.

 

Then moderates dropped out and his campaign kind of fell apart.

 

It was not a strongly run campaign. They had a legitimate strategy in place but it relied too much on the actions of others instead of expanding his own base.

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Note that even Biden voters favored Medicare for All in primary exit polling. This is an example of what Biden could do if he wanted:

 

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1 hour ago, Frott Scost said:


We tried to warn you people that Bernie does best with independents which are not able to vote in some democratic primaries. The polls showed this. It would have been a slam dunk in November but democrats wanted to listen to corporate media about how electable Biden is and now they screwed up. New poll just came out this week that shows Trump has I think it was 58% extremely excited to vote for him in November and Biden had 24% extremely excited to vote for him. People will not leave work early or stand in a long line to vote for him. The democrats made their bed in 2016 and they didnt learn and now they made their bed in 2020. Will the learn in 2024? Probably not. 

 

OK, set the enthusiasm piece aside. Point conceded - Trump's cult is extremely excited to vote for him. I'm not shocked.

 

Where is the evidence that Sanders performs best with independents by any significant margin?

 

that Here's a recent poll has Biden +11 with indies compared to Bernie in a general election. Here's one where Biden is +4 on Bernie in a general. Here's one where Bernie is up +2 over Biden with them in the primary (Biden still beats Trump by 1 with independents).

 

The evidence is a bit unclear on whether he would be better with swing voters. And Biden is outperforming him in nearly every swing state poll taken recently. Personally I don't care what coalition we cobble together, I just want the strongest candidate that will bring out the most voters.


Arizona

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Florida

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Florida

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Michigan

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North Carolina

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Ohio

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Pennsylvania

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Wisconsin

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25 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Note that even Biden voters favored Medicare for All in primary exit polling. This is an example of what Biden could do if he wanted:

 

 

You can have healthcare that is not provided by employers without M4A. It's a public option and it's his current platform.

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1 hour ago, Frott Scost said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Frott Scost said:

 

 

Also, not surprised this lot is out here making excuses for Rogan.

 

How about their typical response where they make this BIden's fault they actually point out that Rogan's logic is bullsh#t and have him take some responsibility for his own awful decision?

 

I can't even with these clowns. Pretty much the Fox News of the left at this point.

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i had no idea that bernies plans are closer to trumps ideas than they are to bidens.   i was thinking that biden was much closer to bernie than trump is.   how 15% of bernie supporters will vote for the guy farthest from bernies ideals makes no sense at all to me.   oh well.   it's their vote. if they want to stick it to the dems so bad it will only cost them an extremely far right wing supreme court for the rest of their lives.  good luck progressives.    

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1 hour ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

Does he not get paid for commentating? I assumed some of those fees were paid by the UFC. Regardless the point is BIden's views are shaped in part by the company he keeps, including White.

 

I'm sorry, the notion that Rogan is any kind of leftist lost me at him saying he'd vote for Donald f#cking Trump and citing a bunch of bullsh#t as the reason why.

 

 

 

Again, haven't heard/seen the bit about him voting for Trump, but here's he himself:

 

 

 

 

 

He's also for single payer healthcare, comprehensive prison reform, free public college, UBI, etc. - also the first minute of this one:

 

 

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4 minutes ago, commando said:

i had no idea that bernies plans are closer to trumps ideas than they are to bidens.   i was thinking that biden was much closer to bernie than trump is.   how 15% of bernie supporters will vote for the guy farthest from bernies ideals makes no sense at all to me.   oh well.   it's their vote. if they want to stick it to the dems so bad it will only cost them an extremely far right wing supreme court for the rest of their lives.  good luck progressives.    

 

That chunk aren't actual progressives. They like Bernie for other reasons (anti-establishment, perceived honesty) or just hate Biden. They were never coming home if Bernie didn't win.

 

Rogan is just plain picking idiotic reasons to not vote for Biden for someone who is apparently a leftist.

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Being anti-establishment and being a "true" progressive are not mutually exclusive things. I'd even argue they're closer to mutually inclusive.

 

Edit: Also, let's be honest - the percentage of establishment/corporate democrats in office that would prefer Trump over Bernie isn't 0. 

 

Edit 2: Finally listened to the clip of Rogan. This is being blown out of proportion imo. He didn't say he will vote for Trump, he said (in response to someone saying they can't vote for Biden, but also can't vote for Trump), that he'd rather vote for Trump than Biden. I don't think that's meant to be taken literally. 

 

 

 

 

Third independent thought - knapp keeps making mention about how this election is different than all the others of the last 100 years. Which is true. Which, to me, begs the question - if this election is so different, then why is Biden doing the exact same thing as all the loser Democrat presidential nominees of the last few decades?

 

Biden, Clinton, Kerry, Gore - all felt entitled to people's votes even with uninspiring bland policy, and all lost because of their arrogance. Biden literally tells people not to vote for him, and in spirit dares people not to. This election is different, yet the Dem establishment is trotting out the same tested and failed approach.

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2 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

You can have healthcare that is not provided by employers without M4A. It's a public option and it's his current platform.

Of course you can, but a majority of Biden's own voters prefer M4A. My point is that Biden has the political room right now to make a big change on policy - in particular on healthcare. It's a move that appeals to his existing base and has the potential to move a lot of progressives. But I'm guessing he'll stick with the same policy Hillary ran on.

 

28 minutes ago, Landlord said:

Third independent thought - knapp keeps making mention about how this election is different than all the others of the last 100 years. Which is true. Which, to me, begs the question - if this election is so different, then why is Biden doing the exact same thing as all the loser Democrat presidential nominees of the last few decades?

 

Biden, Clinton, Kerry, Gore - all felt entitled to people's votes even with uninspiring bland policy, and all lost because of their arrogance. Biden literally tells people not to vote for him, and in spirit dares people not to. This election is different, yet the Dem establishment is trotting out the same tested and failed approach.

Yeah, I'm get strong 2004 Kerry v W vibes with Biden v Trump. And I think W actually had lower approval ratings than Trump does.

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3 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

You can have healthcare that is not provided by employers without M4A. It's a public option and it's his current platform.


How does a public option deal with affordability of healthcare? Not only does it raise taxes for everyone, even people not using it. It also keeps in place premiums and deductibles. Plus Bidens plan admittedly leaves 10 million people uninsured...its a garbage plan. 

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3 hours ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

OK, set the enthusiasm piece aside. Point conceded - Trump's cult is extremely excited to vote for him. I'm not shocked.

 

Where is the evidence that Sanders performs best with independents by any significant margin?

 

that Here's a recent poll has Biden +11 with indies compared to Bernie in a general election. Here's one where Biden is +4 on Bernie in a general. Here's one where Bernie is up +2 over Biden with them in the primary (Biden still beats Trump by 1 with independents).

 

The evidence is a bit unclear on whether he would be better with swing voters. And Biden is outperforming him in nearly every swing state poll taken recently. Personally I don't care what coalition we cobble together, I just want the strongest candidate that will bring out the most voters.


Arizona

OtZUBll.png?1

Florida

qEh5Z8D.png

Florida

qEh5Z8D.png

Michigan

ewooZqI.png

North Carolina

7sEkiCB.png

Ohio

RhVl3du.png

Pennsylvania

4JFymiK.png

Wisconsin

dzx2swK.png


You are using recent polls. Bernie hasnt been relevant since South Carolina over a month ago. Of course his numbers are going to go down, hes lost. Im talking about polls from before voting started and it was anyones game. There is one I remember he was +18 with independents. Higher than all the other candidates. 

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