The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[RedDenver]

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

16 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Smart move to do it now . This is the kill shot.  Sanders Bro's will like this (I think, the normal ones anyway)

 

You mean the Obama endorsement?

 

Gotta tell you, the Progressive wing of the party wasn't particularly impressed with Obama's moves as President, and believe the likelihood that Obama made the call to Butteigeg and Klobacher to drop out prior to Super Tuesday in order to stop Bernie Sanders.

 

Some might wonder why Obama waited this long to  support of his own Vice President.

 

Don't know if there's any "kill shot" at the moment. Biden is the nominee and the choice hasn't changed. The seven months until the election seems like a lifetime,. People might feel a little different by then.  

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Of course you can have opinions. But complaining about some group of voters not voting the way you want while simultaneously ridiculing them for it seems counter-productive if your goal is to get the most voters for your candidate.

 

The more I think about these groups deliberately not endorsing Biden, the more I realize it's strong politics. They aren't even claiming they won't vote for Biden, just making sure his campaign knows they aren't getting an endorsement. The only way to get Biden and his campaign to move closer to your position is to withhold your endorsement or vote. If they come out as Bernie and AOC have and say they're going to vote for the Dem nominee no matter what, then Biden can safely ignore them. But if Biden wants to win, then he has to consider how to best convince voters who are not already voting for him.

 

This idea that the voters themselves have no role in the decision who they vote for is weird.  Can't voters just look around at the world today and make a decision?  Biden's platform is on his website, he's given stump speeches up the yang, he's not an unknown commodity. Same for Trump - and you have the last four years of Trump's record to look at.

 

Why can't voters look at all that information and just make a decision?

[teachercd]

25 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Sanders followers won't care at all I'm afraid.  Platform and policy is everything and the only way Biden could get them is if he adopted almost every policy Sanders has...or at least tried on a few of them.

 

Edit:  Here...take a look at what I mean.  This woman being interviewed was on Bernies team for the 2016 election.

 

 

Thanks!  I was not totally sure where that crowd would go.

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

This idea that the voters themselves have no role in the decision who they vote for is weird.  Can't voters just look around at the world today and make a decision?  Biden's platform is on his website, he's given stump speeches up the yang, he's not an unknown commodity. Same for Trump - and you have the last four years of Trump's record to look at.

 

Why can't voters look at all that information and just make a decision?

This idea that candidates have no role to make changes in their platforms and campaigns is weird. Voters can use their power at the ballot to encourage the candidates to change their positions.

[TGHusker]

4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

I've seen people try to compare Bernie Sanders chances to George McGovern in 1972, but 1968 has its lesson, too. Having the excitement of Mccarthy/Kennedy turn into Hubert Humphrey turn into Richard Nixon sound pretty familiar right now. 

Good analysis.  In 1968 I was 12 years old and I remember all of this like it was yesterday.  1968 was perhaps the most terrible year as a whole in the USA outside of the Civil War or WW2.. Who knows maybe this year will be marked in the same way.  Kennedy had really gathered steam towards the nomination and had captured the minds of so many.  And then the assassination occurred.   McGovern belatedly tried to pick up his mantle but it was too late.  So the Dems ended up wt HHH and a terribly fractured convention. 

HHH was the worse candidate at the time and Nixon barely beat him.  Kind of reminds us of Hillary being the worse possible candidate in 2016 against another person not worthy of the office. Trump barely gets in office via the electoral college.   Nixon of course was far more experienced and capable and accomplished in office than what Trump will ever hope to be.  But Nixon was undone by all of his insecurities that led to all of his ethical/legal/criminal activity which then led to his resignation.  Trump's insecurities are seen every day in action. In 1974 the GOP was willing to tell Nixon the truth, today's GOP won't/can't and therefore Trump remains in office when he should have been removed by impeachment.

 

In 1978 I did my major history project on HHH. He was a native South Dakotan like I.  On a personal level, I really admired the guy.  Just wasn't right for 1968 and he was stained too much by LBJ and Vietnam.

[knapplc]

Just now, RedDenver said:

This idea that candidates have no role to make changes in their platforms and campaigns is weird. Voters can use their power at the ballot to encourage the candidates to change their positions.

 

So the better choice is to punish Joe Biden for not being Bernie Sanders and not vote for him.  Gotcha.

[teachercd]

10 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

You mean the Obama endorsement?

 

Gotta tell you, the Progressive wing of the party wasn't particularly impressed with Obama's moves as President, and believe the likelihood that Obama made the call to Butteigeg and Klobacher to drop out prior to Super Tuesday in order to stop Bernie Sanders.

 

Some might wonder why Obama waited this long to  support of his own Vice President.

 

Don't know if there's any "kill shot" at the moment. Biden is the nominee and the choice hasn't changed. The seven months until the election seems like a lifetime,. People might feel a little different by then.  

Hmmm, I did not really know that.  Thanks!

[knapplc]

 

[RedDenver]

5 minutes ago, knapplc said:

So the better choice is to punish Joe Biden for not being Bernie Sanders and not vote for him.  Gotcha.

Come on, that's a ridiculous strawman. The better choice is to put as much pressure on Biden (or any candidate) as possible to move towards the policies that align more closely with voters. And for better or worse, as voters we mostly have the power to vote for a candidate or not.

 

Consider two scenarios:

1) Progressives announce they'll support and vote for the Dem nominee no matter what because Trump is so awful.

2) Progressives don't endorse Biden and talk strongly about withholding their vote.

In which scenario is Biden more likely to adopt more progressive policies and in which is Biden more likely to adopt more conservative policies?

[Danny Bateman]

18 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

This idea that the voters themselves have no role in the decision who they vote for is weird.  Can't voters just look around at the world today and make a decision?  Biden's platform is on his website, he's given stump speeches up the yang, he's not an unknown commodity. Same for Trump - and you have the last four years of Trump's record to look at.

 

Why can't voters look at all that information and just make a decision?

 

Like it or not, a lot of the people who are not already on board with Biden feel like they must be inspired to vote for him and that requires concessions of varying magnitude toward positions they support or they don't see the point in voting for him.

 

Personally, I've never felt this way. I'm not entitled to anything or owed anything from candidates I don't like. The probability of me getting one that aligns with all of my views is low. But sitting out feels lazy and third-party voting is useless. So I just look at the available options and pick the one I'm more closely aligned with which is almost always the Democrat. Particularly true this go-around.

 

To me it's just the right thing to do. But that's different for everyone.

[teachercd]

13 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Come on, that's a ridiculous strawman. The better choice is to put as much pressure on Biden (or any candidate) as possible to move towards the policies that align more closely with voters. And for better or worse, as voters we mostly have the power to vote for a candidate or not.

 

Consider two scenarios:

1) Progressives announce they'll support and vote for the Dem nominee no matter what because Trump is so awful.

2) Progressives don't endorse Biden and talk strongly about withholding their vote.

In which scenario is Biden more likely to adopt more progressive policies and in which is Biden more likely to adopt more conservative policies?

This is how voting has worked since the first time a vote was cast.  Not sure why some people want to try and change it now.

[RedDenver]

 

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

Like it or not, a lot of the people who are not already on board with Biden feel like they must be inspired to vote for him and that requires concessions of varying magnitude toward positions they support or they don't see the point in voting for him.

 

I 100% understand this is the thought process. It's just wrong-headed thinking.

[Danny Bateman]

39 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Some might wonder why Obama waited this long to  support of his own Vice President.

 

I don't know if you're aware of this, but this is a talking point trotted out today by Trump's campaign manager to attack Biden.

 

Of course Obama was never going to endorse anyone prior to the primary being concluded. So I guess Obama waited... a whole week?

 

It'd be interesting to see a Venn Diagram of the things Trump supporters and Sanders supporters have said about Biden because they use a lot of similar messaging.