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The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election


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Which Dem candidate said the following?

 

“Health can’t be privatized because it is a fundamental human right, nor can education, water, electricity and other public services. They can’t be surrendered to private capital that denies the people from their rights.”

 

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4 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Which Dem candidate said the following?

 

“Health can’t be privatized because it is a fundamental human right, nor can education, water, electricity and other public services. They can’t be surrendered to private capital that denies the people from their rights.”

 

Sounds like ole Bernie but that seems too easy

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2 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Which Dem candidate said the following?

 

“Health can’t be privatized because it is a fundamental human right, nor can education, water, electricity and other public services. They can’t be surrendered to private capital that denies the people from their rights.”

 

 

What point are you trying to make with this?

 

Just wondering, because it gets really tiresome hearing people use some other country's failure as a reason to not have universal healthcare, which works in many places.

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8 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

What point are you trying to make with this?

 

Just wondering, because it gets really tiresome hearing people use some other country's failure as a reason to not have universal healthcare, which works in many places.

Bingo.   The quote wasn't from a Dem candidate as you so WISELY  noted.     

 

I'm not as concerned about UHC --  as I think that will be a given and eventually be workable in the future based on the trajectory we are on now.  I think conservatives need to face that new reality and plan policies that will work with that in mind and work with those on the other side to make it workable.  My concern is what follows afterwards.   What other sectors of our economy will be in the conversation for moving from the private sector to the public?   The rhetoric by Warren and others have escalated to the point of out running the rest of the country.  

 

 

The quote is from a Bloomberg article. 


https://www.bloombergquint.com/view/venezuela-is-a-failure-of-the-left-not-just-a-failed-state#gs.7WV1CQTK

 

Quote

As Venezuela careens toward a further economic and political collapse, the blame game is heating up. In the U.S., Republicans are labeling the country “socialist,” using Venezuelan problems as a weapon against more left-leaning Democrats. Commentators on the left, in contrast, are arguing that Venezuela is more of a failed petro-state with bad leadership, rather than a test of socialist ideals. Who is right?

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One simple way to trace that influence for Chavez is to look at Wikiquotes, where you will find plenty of utterances against globalization and the market economy. “Privatization is a neoliberal and imperialist plan,” he said in 2005. “Health can’t be privatized because it is a fundamental human right, nor can education, water, electricity and other public services. They can’t be surrendered to private capital that denies the people from their rights.” That rhetoric of victimization and absolute moralizing against markets doesn’t sound so different from a lot of what I hear from non-Venezuelans on social media……. And while many on the left are now keen to disavow any connection to the Venezuelan disaster, their earlier enthusiasm is on the record. Greg Grandin, writing in The Nation in 2013, offered a laudatory take on Chavez and suggested that Venezuela “might be the most democratic country in the Western hemisphere.” (He also argued, oddly enough, that Chavez “wasn’t authoritarian enough.”) Jeremy Corbyn , leader of the U.K.’s Labour Party, has also been a big Chavez fan, while Nobel laureate economist Joseph Stiglitz praised Venezuela’s economic policies in 2007 and declared that the risks of higher inflation were overrated.  Yes, there are some exaggerations and mischaracterizations in the right-wing charge that Venezuela’s system is socialism, pure and simple. At the same time, the evidence shows that, for some parts of the ideological left, the cause for embarrassment is very real indeed.

 

 




 

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54 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Which Dem candidate said the following?

 

“Health can’t be privatized because it is a fundamental human right, nor can education, water, electricity and other public services. They can’t be surrendered to private capital that denies the people from their rights.”

 

Don't we already have all of that but the healthcare?

 

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18 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Bingo.   The quote wasn't from a Dem candidate as you so WISELY  noted.     

 

I'm not as concerned about UHC --  as I think that will be a given and eventually be workable in the future based on the trajectory we are on now.  I think conservatives need to face that new reality and plan policies that will work with that in mind and work with those on the other side to make it workable.  My concern is what follows afterwards.   What other sectors of our economy will be in the conversation for moving from the private sector to the public?   The rhetoric by Warren and others have escalated to the point of out running the rest of the country.  

 

 

The quote is from a Bloomberg article. 


https://www.bloombergquint.com/view/venezuela-is-a-failure-of-the-left-not-just-a-failed-state#gs.7WV1CQTK

That article is poorly written and doesn't even look at the most important figure in determining if Venezuela is a petro-state with bad leadership: how much of Venezuela's GDP is based on the petro industry. Turns out that 95% of Venezuela's exports and 25% of its GDP comes from the oil industry.

 

Then they undermine their own argument:

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Venezuelan leaders have treated state oil money as a slush fund for themselves and their cronies, and furthermore they borrowed against future oil revenues. The daughter of former President Hugo Chavez, who died six years ago, is still reportedly one of the richest women in Venezuela. Of course that came largely from state resources, and it happened while the Venezuelan citizenry was sinking further into poverty.

 

Venezuela is certainly a cautionary tale about socialism, but it's not representative of all forms of socialism, all ideas in socialism, or all ways to govern with socialism. Capitalists trying to discredit an entire ideology with a single example is ridiculous and ultimately undermines or ignores other, stronger criticisms of socialism and socialist ideas.

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24 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Bingo.   The quote wasn't from a Dem candidate as you so WISELY  noted.     

 

I'm not as concerned about UHC --  as I think that will be a given and eventually be workable in the future based on the trajectory we are on now.  I think conservatives need to face that new reality and plan policies that will work with that in mind and work with those on the other side to make it workable.  My concern is what follows afterwards.   What other sectors of our economy will be in the conversation for moving from the private sector to the public?   The rhetoric by Warren and others have escalated to the point of out running the rest of the country.  

 

 

The quote is from a Bloomberg article. 


https://www.bloombergquint.com/view/venezuela-is-a-failure-of-the-left-not-just-a-failed-state#gs.7WV1CQTK

 


 


 

I'm not well read on Venezuela but i wonder if they ever did have a booming economy, and stability for their citizens? Seems to me they've always been more of a poverty stricken country with a corrupt government? I wonder how many of their problems were actually caused by "socialism". 

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2 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

I just can't get behind a Sanders presidency.  I feel he wants no one to have any responsibility or accountability other than someone that has a certain number of zeroes in their bank account.

I think you're taking his criticisms of the wealthy and assuming what he thinks of the rest of society. But regardless, I think as voters we should care more about the policies being put forward by each candidate than the popularity contest of personalities the media likes to cover. 

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1 hour ago, Big Red 40 said:

I'm not well read on Venezuela but i wonder if they ever did have a booming economy, and stability for their citizens? Seems to me they've always been more of a poverty stricken country with a corrupt government? I wonder how many of their problems were actually caused by "socialism". 

 

listen to these two (the first hour of each, the second hour is typically nonsense.   But it shows how great of an economy Venezuela had and would still be fairly successful if it wasn't for US/WTO meddling that led to their current economic crisis, which many are blaming on 'socialism' which is not accurate at all.

 

https://congressionaldish.com/cd176-target-venezuela-regime-change-in-progress/

 

https://congressionaldish.com/cd190-a-coup-for-capitalism/

 

This podcast is sourced really well, and is an easy listen.

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There's a wide, wide difference between the successful implementation of socialist policies in Europe and the type of socialism you see implemented in Venezuela. Notably, yes, the key to it being successful is not putting a corrupt d*ckhead in charge of things and allowing them to exploit the economy for the benefit of themselves and their cronies.

 

That's not to say socialist policies are easy to implement. A lot of the reason it works in Europe is because they are small,  fairly wealthy, mostly homogenous countries. But I think we could utilize some of them moving forward. Even some more market-skeptic ideas would be nice to check corporate greed and lobbying influence on our laws.

 

Republicans trying to campaign against some sudden socialist takeover of the federal government are absolutely being hysterical. It's just fear mongering.

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A way to early Hill/Harris poll has Uncle Joe tied with Michelle O as # 1 in the poll. 

 

 

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/430614-one-fourth-of-democratic-voters-say-theyd-support-michelle

 

Meanwhile, Sen Harris seems to have lost the support, or maybe never had it, from her Jamaican father.    Some family dirty laundry seems to be on display here.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/19/kamala-harris-jamaican-father-donald-harris-rips-2/

Quote

 

When Sen. Kamala Harris said last week that she obviously supports marijuana legalization and has smoked the plant, she cited her ethnicity — “Half my family’s from Jamaica. Are you kidding me?”

Her Jamaican father is not happy about that.

In a statement to Jamaica Global Online, Donald Harris called his daughter’s remarks a “travesty” and accused her of stereotyping.

“My dear departed grandmother … as well as my deceased parents, must be turning in their grave right now to see their family’s name, reputation and proud Jamaican identity being connected, in any way, jokingly or not with the fraudulent stereotype of a pot-smoking joy seeker and in the pursuit of identity politics,” he said.

“Speaking for myself and my immediate Jamaican family, we wish to categorically dissociate ourselves from this travesty,” Mr. Harris, an economics professor at Stanford University, concluded in a statement to the news site for the Jamaican diaspora.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

A way to early Hill/Harris poll has Uncle Joe tied with Michelle O as # 1 in the poll. 

 

 

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/430614-one-fourth-of-democratic-voters-say-theyd-support-michelle

 

Meanwhile, Sen Harris seems to have lost the support, or maybe never had it, from her Jamaican father.    Some family dirty laundry seems to be on display here.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/19/kamala-harris-jamaican-father-donald-harris-rips-2/

 

 

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