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The Courts under Trump - Mega Thread


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As someone in the LBGTQIA community, the prospects of having the Supreme Court go far-right under Trump is truly the most terrifying aspect of his Presidency.  Trump has already shown he doesn't care how badly our community gets discriminated against.  It saddens me at how the USA is regressing in terms of equal rights for all simply because a relatively small percentage fundamentalist "christians" feel their entire way of life is threatened because two men can get married or a trans person uses the bathroom of the gender they identify as.

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3 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

As someone in the LBGTQIA community, the prospects of having the Supreme Court go far-right under Trump is truly the most terrifying aspect of his Presidency.  Trump has already shown he doesn't care how badly our community gets discriminated against.  It saddens me at how the USA is regressing in terms of equal rights for all simply because a relatively small percentage fundamentalist "christians" feel their entire way of life is threatened because two men can get married or a trans person uses the bathroom of the gender they identify as.

 

Well said.

I think the best we can hope to do is organize this year in our own local communities to try to put fewer of those types (or those that go along with them) in the Senate and in 2020 to try and get Trump out of office.

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5 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

As someone in the LBGTQIA community, the prospects of having the Supreme Court go far-right under Trump is truly the most terrifying aspect of his Presidency.  Trump has already shown he doesn't care how badly our community gets discriminated against.  It saddens me at how the USA is regressing in terms of equal rights for all simply because a relatively small percentage fundamentalist "christians" feel their entire way of life is threatened because two men can get married or a trans person uses the bathroom of the gender they identify as.

 

Gay Americans campaigned for the right to marry, based in large part on the libertarian logic that as whether they married didn’t affect straight people, strsight people should just let them be. Many convservatives, myself included, supported gay marriage for this reason. I have gay friends, want them to be happy, etc., but the “live and let live” school of thought is one I try to live by.

 

But as soon as gay marriage was legalized, the first thing the gay mafia started doing was to force people to accept and even participate in their weddings. How many businesses have they tried to close down now, simply because the Christians that run them refuse to violate their religious beliefs? I’ve gone from being a strong proponent of gay marriage to thinking the gay lobby are filled with some of the most shameful, ridiculous, and miserable hypocrites I’ve ever encountered. 

 

Tolerance is a two way street. Gay people want to be left alone to marry. Fair enough. Forcing Christians to violate their beliefs by participating? Americans have thrown tea into harbors for stuff like that.

Edited by Ric Flair
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7 minutes ago, zoogs said:

Nobody's forcing you poor Christian snowflake to get gay married. It's alright, man. You're safe. There, there.

 

You’re clearly not smart enough to even understand the argument. Unfortunately I run into students like you from time to time. I usually recommend the “Hooked on Phonics” kit as a good way to jumpstart your way into message board debate. It will take some time, but good reading skills will serve you well...both here and in life generally. :-)

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53 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

Gay Americans campaigned for the right to marry, based in large part on the libertarian logic that as whether they married didn’t affect straight people, strsight people should just let them be. Many convservatives, myself included, supported gay marriage for this reason. I have gay friends, want them to be happy, etc., but the “live and let live” school of thought is one I try to live by.

 

But as soon as gay marriage was legalized, the first thing the gay mafia started doing was to force people to accept and even participate in their weddings. How many businesses have they tried to close down now, simply because the Christians that run them refuse to violate their religious beliefs? I’ve gone from being a strong proponent of gay marriage to thinking the gay lobby are filled with some of the most shameful, ridiculous, and miserable hypocrites I’ve ever encountered. 

 

Tolerance is a two way street. Gay people want to be left alone to marry. Fair enough. Forcing Christians to violate their beliefs by participating? Americans have thrown tea into harbors for stuff like that.

 

I appreciate your support and hope you continue to be an ally.

 

I'm not sure if it is irony, but believe it or not I am also saddened by members of my community taking christian bakeries to court.  My belief is, if you go to a baker for a wedding cake and said baker doesn't want to bake a cake for you, just patronize another bakery.  Don't make a big deal out of it.  

 

That being said, it baffles me that christians refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding.  First, they're in business to make money and turning away customers just seems like a bad business model.

 

Second, why do some christians get so bent out of shape on this issue?  If they truly hold to their religious beliefs, then not only would they refuse service to gays, but also to those who:

 

  • have been married multiple times
  • have committed adultery
  • lied
  • cheated on their taxes
  • committed any of the seven deadly sins

Because all sin is, according to christianity, an abomination before god.  But ridiculously, it is always people in the LBGTQIA community who are singled out.  The sins and immorality of straight people conveniently gets overlooked and ignored.  It's the hypocrisy more than anything else that bothers me.

 

Third, religious liberty means having the freedom to pick whatever religion (or none at all) a person thinks works best for them.  Religious liberty is not, and never will be, a carte blanche ticket to be a bigot. 

 

Fourth, and finally, how does baking a cake violate or impede a christians right to practice his or her faith?  I have never understood that reasoning.  Bake a cake for a gay wedding and said christian can still pray, go to church or mass, and believe in the god of their denominational indoctrination.  The corrallary is, I own a bakery and I refuse to bake a cake for a straight wedding because if I do, I will no longer be a part of the LBGTQIA community.  It's just idiocy.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, zoogs said:

"I support gay people, want them to be happy, but the gay mafia is terrorizing Christians".

 

Self-honesty is important.

 

I was for gay marriage before either Clinton or Obama was. I threatened to withdraw my funding for the RNC when they tried to marginalize the Log Cabin Republicans. But tolerance is a two way street. Gay Americans deserve it. But so do Christian Americans. 

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You may have been for gay marriage before I was! We've come a long, long way as a society in a very short amount of time on this topic. I appreciate those who, like Obama, have evolved in their thinking on the issue to the point that they are now steadfast advocates. In what was it, 2004, when I was still in school and we had a soon-to-be-reelected President campaigning on a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage, it definitely seemed like a topic where reasonable people could disagree, and that window shifted really fast in the ten years to follow.

 

"Support for gay people" is strange cred to want to claim for yourself when you've gone pretty far in the other direction.

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3 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

I appreciate your support and hope you continue to be an ally.

 

I'm not sure if it is irony, but believe it or not I am also saddened by members of my community taking christian bakeries to court.  My belief is, if you go to a baker for a wedding cake and said baker doesn't want to bake a cake for you, just patronize another bakery.  Don't make a big deal out of it.  

 

That being said, it baffles me that christians refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding.  First, they're in business to make money and turning away customers just seems like a bad business model.

 

Second, why do some christians get so bent out of shape on this issue?  If they truly hold to their religious beliefs, then not only would they refuse service to gays, but also to those who:

 

  • have been married multiple times
  • have committed adultery
  • lied
  • cheated on their taxes
  • committed any of the seven deadly sins

Because all sin is, according to christianity, an abomination before god.  But ridiculously, it is always people in the LBGTQIA community who are singled out.  The sins and immorality of straight people conveniently gets overlooked and ignored.  It's the hypocrisy more than anything else that bothers me.

 

Third, religious liberty means having the freedom to pick whatever religion (or none at all) a person thinks works best for them.  Religious liberty is not, and never will be, a carte blanche ticket to be a bigot. 

 

Fourth, and finally, how does baking a cake violate or impede a christians right to practice his or her faith?  I have never understood that reasoning.  Bake a cake for a gay wedding and said christian can still pray, go to church or mass, and believe in the god of their denominational indoctrination.  The corrallary is, I own a bakery and I refuse to bake a cake for a straight wedding because if I do, I will no longer be a part of the LBGTQIA community.  It's just idiocy.

 

 

 

Thanks buddy. I went to the US Supreme Court and heard the oral argument in Masterpiece Cake late last year. It was amazing. I had the opportunity to meet the gay couple as well as Jack and his wife, who own the cakeshop. They were all cool as hell. But I strongly side with Jack.

 

No business should be able to refuse service to someone for being gay. Masterpiece baked cakes for gay customers all the time. Some of Jack’s best customers and friends were and are gay. The key is that he couldn’t make them a custom cake specifically crafted to celebrate a gay wedding. It violates his religious beliefs. He refuses to bake cakes for anniversaries of divorces. He refuses requests to bake cakes with adult, sexual, or pornographic themes. 

 

He offered to sell them a premade cake. He referred them to other cake bakers he knew who would make them a cake. But they demanded he make them a custom cake for their gay wedding. When he told them he couldn’t, they sued him. He’s a good guy and he’s almost been bankrupted by this. It’s completely ridiculous.

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1 minute ago, zoogs said:

You may have been for gay marriage before I was! We've come a long, long way as a society in a very short amount of time on this topic. I appreciate those who, like Obama, have evolved in their thinking on the issue to the point that they are now steadfast advocates. In what was it, 2004, when I was still in school and we had a soon-to-be-reelected President campaigning on a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage, it definitely seemed like a topic where reasonable people could disagree, and that window shifted really fast in the ten years to follow.

 

"Support for gay people" is strange cred to want to claim for yourself when you've gone pretty far in the other direction.

 

Most gay people I know suspect the transgender folks may just be mentally ill.

Just now, TheSker said:

Absolutely.

 

There's plenty of irony in many of those who preach tolerance.

 

Yep. And rank hypocrisy. Unfortunately.

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