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The Courts under Trump - Mega Thread


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1 minute ago, zoogs said:

You need to find yourself some transgender friends to call really cool, before hyping up the train of the mentally ill transgender mafia coming here to oppress good upstanding Christians.

 

I mean honestly.

 

Gay and transgender are different zoogs. There are a small minority who are both. But you’re conflating the two. 

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To be clear, I can recognize there are fine grain legal issues in all of these court cases, and it's far from clear that good social outcomes have the appropriate legal standing. There are thoughtful people who actually do support gay rights but have differing views on the legal opinions authored, for example, but these people do not walk through life imagining the "gay mafia" is out to tear down America.

 

Such language is telling.

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1 minute ago, zoogs said:

To be clear, I can recognize there are fine grain legal issues in all of these court cases, and it's far from clear that good social outcomes have the appropriate legal standing. There are thoughtful people who actually do support gay rights but have differing views on the legal opinions authored, for example, but these people do not walk through life imagining the "gay mafia" is out to tear down America.

 

Such language is telling.

 

Yep, it’s telling that those like me who are consistent in believing that America must be tolerant in order to make this society function are upset with the gay mafia for being such complete hypocrites. We championed the rights of homosexuals and cheered for them when they were allowed to marry. We fully support laws to protect them from employment and other discrimination. But when they started siccing the government on religious people, trying to force them to participate in gay weddings? That’s complete hypocritical b***s***.

 

Tolerance means we all respect each other and leave each other the f*** alone as much as possible. Live and let live. Period.

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1 minute ago, zoogs said:

Wow, it's almost as if you always viewed them as a "them"; tolerable until they stepped on the "us".

 

What do the "homosexuals" have to do to get back into the loving warmth of your good graces?

 

I like gay people, but as a straight man, have no interest in inviting them into my “loving warmth.” ;-)

 

I favor tolerance. Our doverse and pluralistic society only works of we work hard at tolerance. Gay people pleaded for tolerance. Then as soon as they got it, some of them went to work denying it to others. 

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4 minutes ago, zoogs said:

To be fair, I do get a kick out of straight men who really need to go out of their way, however unprompted, to let everyone know they're SO straight. ;)

 

 

 

You were the one who brought it up. I just played with your wording. And I have nothing to prove to anyone. I am a straight guy, but some of my best friends and the coolest people I know happen to be gay. The fact they’re gay couldn’t be less relevant to our friendships.

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The debate about the cake owners being allowed to refuse business to someone based on discrimination is clearly against the law. If you're Christian and don't want to do business with people you don't agree with, then don't operate a business. You have the freedom to not have a business. But if you're going to operate a business and have all the legal privileges therein, then you have all the legal responsibilities as well, which includes not being discriminatory.

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28 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

The debate about the cake owners being allowed to refuse business to someone based on discrimination is clearly against the law. If you're Christian and don't want to do business with people you don't agree with, then don't operate a business. You have the freedom to not have a business. But if you're going to operate a business and have all the legal privileges therein, then you have all the legal responsibilities as well, which includes not being discriminatory.

Jack's shop is about a mile from me.  I believe he dropped the custom cake portion of his business.

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54 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

The debate about the cake owners being allowed to refuse business to someone based on discrimination is clearly against the law. If you're Christian and don't want to do business with people you don't agree with, then don't operate a business. You have the freedom to not have a business. But if you're going to operate a business and have all the legal privileges therein, then you have all the legal responsibilities as well, which includes not being discriminatory.

 

It's not that clear to me, maybe because I haven't followed the case that closely, but I believe some of the arguments are along the lines of "well, he did offer to sell them cakes, just not personalized wedding cakes unless they are for straight weddings" and "is a for example Mexican tattoo artist obligated to give someone who wants it a tattoo that says 'Mexicans are rapists #MAGA'". The second question seems easy to bat down as not discriminatory. The first one...I don't know, it's less clear, but I do agree with you: if your business includes selling personalized wedding cakes to customers then you should serve everybody.

 

The really easy solution to this problem is to not be a dick who can't stand the idea of gay love so much that you won't make a gay couple a nice cake for their joyous occasion. I guess the other thing you could do, as alluded to above, is get out of the custom cake business and let it be known that it was the gays or the laws or the liberal activists, or anyone other than yourself, that ruined it for everyone.

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