The Courts under Trump - Mega Thread

[Moiraine]

6 minutes ago, FrankWheeler said:

As a father of girls this whole conversation about "not being judged by my behavior as a drunken 17 year old" freaks me out.

 

 

Ditto. How the f#&% is holding a woman/girl down on a bed and trying to forcibly rip her clothes off and then whatever happens after that if she does’t get away considered a “stupid decision” ?

 

Not saying we know Kavanaugh did it but the post implying that behavior is a stupid decision is disturbing.

[BigRedBuster]

9 minutes ago, FrankWheeler said:

As a father of girls this whole conversation about "not being judged by my behavior as a drunken 17 year old" freaks me out.

 

I have two daughters now in their 20s.  I don't take sexual assault lightly.  If someone would assault them, I would expect them to be punished to the extent of the law.

[Danny Bateman]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I have two daughters now in their 20s.  I don't take sexual assault lightly.  If someone would assault them, I would expect them to be punished to the extent of the law.

 

If they weren't, and then decades and decades later were nominated to the Supreme Court, would you support their confirmation?

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

If they weren't, and then decades and decades later were nominated to the Supreme Court, would you support their confirmation?

Valid question.

 

2 things:

 

1)  I view a man in his 20s or later as different than a juvenile under 18.  The law also views these different in many cases for a specific reason.  

 

2)  Also, this is an example of why victims of crimes and their families don't have the ability to dole out punishment for crimes.  If someone were to murder one of them, I shouldn't have the ability to decide their punishment either.  My own emotional ties to the issue cloud judgement.

 

Let me ask you this.  If this allegation were of him in junior high walking down the hall and pinching a girl on the butt and no other incident in his life can be found....should that be held against him?  That's considered sexual assault.  At what age is appropriate to go back to?

[teachercd]

On 9/14/2018 at 8:26 AM, BigRedBuster said:

My thoughts exactly.

 

 

No kidding.

[FrankWheeler]

 

28 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Let me ask you this.  If this allegation were of him in junior high walking down the hall and pinching a girl on the butt and no other incident in his life can be found....should that be held against him?  That's considered sexual assault.  At what age is appropriate to go back to?

 

If he lies about it not happening under oath during his supreme court confirmation hearing it tells us a lot about his moral character and it should be held against him.  He's not lying as a junior high student, he's lying as an adult.

[Danny Bateman]

49 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Valid question.

 

2 things:

 

1)  I view a man in his 20s or later as different than a juvenile under 18.  The law also views these different in many cases for a specific reason.  

  

 2)  Also, this is an example of why victims of crimes and their families don't have the ability to dole out punishment for crimes.  If someone were to murder one of them, I shouldn't have the ability to decide their punishment either.  My own emotional ties to the issue cloud judgement.

  

Let me ask you this.  If this allegation were of him in junior high walking down the hall and pinching a girl on the butt and no other incident in his life can be found....should that be held against him?  That's considered sexual assault.  At what age is appropriate to go back to?

 

I agree with you on 1 and 2, but the question of legal punishment is vastly different than consideration for a lifetime seat on the Court that will directly affect lives of millions and millions of Americans. So it's kind of a moot point.

 

Regarding your hypothetical... no, I wouldn't consider that disqualifying. But that is grievously different from the accusation that's been lobbed at Kavanaugh.

[Danny Bateman]

FYI, for anybody who has a moral or ethical issue with this allegation:

Ben Sasse is a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm sure he would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

[FrankWheeler]

This is a really bad situation and it's terrible that somebody is either lying about being sexually assaulted or sexually assaulting someone.  

 

But, for all of the people saying, "high school, really?".  If one of your classmates brought up something you did during high school, would you?

 

A)  Admit it happened and say how stupid you were in that moment.  Maybe even apologize for such terrible behavior and what pain you may have caused for some of the people around you? 

 

2)  Refute and deny all allegations, how can anybody find out about what happened so long ago anyways?  

 

 

 

 

[methodical]

1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Ditto. How the f#&% is holding a woman/girl down on a bed and trying to forcibly rip her clothes off and then whatever happens after that if she does’t get away considered a “stupid decision” ?

 

Not saying we know Kavanaugh did it but the post implying that behavior is a stupid decision is disturbing.

 

Perhaps bad phrasing on my part, but my drunken "stupid decisions" in my younger years are in no way near the level of forcing someone into a room with a friend blocking the door then assaulting them. so when I say I'd expect "stupid decisions" to follow me they aren't anywhere near that level, just general embarrassing actions.  To be absolutely clear: I wouldn't categorize sexual assault as a stupid decision, its a serious crime, and if it came across as I was minimizing it that was the opposite of my intention.

 

[Moiraine]

5 minutes ago, methodical said:

 

Perhaps bad phrasing on my part, but my drunken "stupid decisions" in my younger years are in no way near the level of forcing someone into a room with a friend blocking the door then assaulting them. so when I say I'd expect "stupid decisions" to follow me they aren't anywhere near that level, just general embarrassing actions.  To be absolutely clear: I wouldn't categorize sexual assault as a stupid decision, its a serious crime, and if it came across as I was minimizing it that was the opposite of my intention.

 

 

 

I probably overreacted to one small part of your post. I just, to use your words, don’t like people minimizing this because he was in high school. I do understand people finding it harder to believe because of the timing, though.

 

Now we’re talking about pinching girls in the hallway, which could probably be categorized as stupid teenage stuff as long as the person grew out of it, but it isn’t relevant because he’s not being accused of that. We don’t need to come

up with hypothetical hallway-pinchings when we have an action he was actually accused of.

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

Valid question.

 

2 things:

 

1)  I view a man in his 20s or later as different than a juvenile under 18.  The law also views these different in many cases for a specific reason.  

 

2)  Also, this is an example of why victims of crimes and their families don't have the ability to dole out punishment for crimes.  If someone were to murder one of them, I shouldn't have the ability to decide their punishment either.  My own emotional ties to the issue cloud judgement.

 

Let me ask you this.  If this allegation were of him in junior high walking down the hall and pinching a girl on the butt and no other incident in his life can be found....should that be held against him?  That's considered sexual assault.  At what age is appropriate to go back to?

 

 

It’s not at all relevant what people think of a butt-pinching in high school. Age is not the ONLY factor here. If it was you wouldn’t see teenage murderers going to jail for years and years.

 

The severity of the crime is important too, so hypothetical butt-pinchings are pointless to discuss. We have a crime he was actually accused of. All that matters is whether an attempted rape while in high school is something that should be taken into account. 

 

It’s also important to note that this isn’t about locking him up for 20 years over something he did under 18. It’s only about him not getting a job. 

[Danny Bateman]

12 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

It’s not at all relevant what people think of a butt-pinching in high school. Age is not the ONLY factor here. If it was you wouldn’t see teenage murderers going to jail for years and years.

 

 The severity of the crime is important too, so hypothetical butt-pinchings are pointless to discuss. We have a crime he was actually accused of. All that matters is whether an attempted rape while in high school is something that should be taken into account. 

  

It’s also important to note that this isn’t about locking him up for 20 years over something he did under 18. It’s only about him not getting a job. 

 

Hell, he can go get any other job he wants.

 

This is a legitimate public interest. It can't be understated that this man will make decisions that will affect every American for unknowable amounts of time.

For a multitude of reasons, he has already disqualified himself. But most of all because he is a liar. This latest accusation is just the disturbing cherry on top.

[FrankWheeler]

 

 

My thoughts exactly.  

[Moiraine]

40 minutes ago, FrankWheeler said:

 

 

My thoughts exactly.  

 

 

With all the talk of him being so young, I didn’t realize he wasn’t a 14 year old at the time.