Trump Domestic Policy - Budgets, etc

[TGHusker]

11 minutes ago, TheSker said:

The supply question is valid, especially in the short term.  

 

I live in Golden CO and have acquaintances at the Coors facility in Golden and with Ball Corporation who has a large aluminum can manufacturing plant in Golden.

 

It will be interesting to get their thoughts.

Your beer just went up in price --

[BigRedBuster]

3 hours ago, Moiraine said:

Have any businesses come out in support of the tariffs?

Obviously the domestic steel companies came out immediately and loved the idea.  Problem is, (going from memory) there is only something like 150,000 US workers in the steel and aluminum industry.  Meanwhile, there is something like 6.5 million in industries that use steel.  So, you are disrupting 6.5 million jobs to maybe increase the number of steel workers from 150,000.

 

I also just watched a story on CNBC where they were reporting from a  steel plant.  They were saying this is one of the most advanced steel plants in the world and the direction the industry is going.  It was all animated.

 

So....even if Drumpf would drastically increase the tons of domestic steel produced, the steel jobs aren't coming back.

 

We need to concentrate on the value added products.  Companies that bring in steel and turn them into actual products for consumers.  

Edited March 5, 2018 by BigRedBuster

[TheSker]

3 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Your beer just went up in price --

That may be an assumption.

 

Ball Corp sends aluminum cans worldwide.  Perhaps their U.S. market share increases?

[TGHusker]

1 minute ago, TheSker said:

That may be an assumption.

 

Ball Corp sends aluminum cans worldwide.  Perhaps their U.S. market share increases?

Ok so they aren't an importer of Alum?  I was reading it that they import alum for their cans - but if they don't then beer will remain the same  !!  So that would be a double

[Moiraine]

2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Obviously the domestic steel companies came out immediately and loved the idea.  Problem is, (going from memory) there is only something like 150,000 US workers in the steel and aluminum industry.  Meanwhile, there is something like 6.5 million in industries that use steel.  So, you are disrupting 6.5 million jobs to maybe increase the number of steel workers from 150,000.

 

I also just watched a story on CNBC where they were reporting from a  steel plant.  They were saying this is one of the most advanced steel plants in the world and the direction the industry is going.  It was all animated.

 

So....even if Drumpf would drastically increase the tons of domestic steel produced, the steel jobs aren't coming back.

 

 

 

I've seen at least one Steel company complaining about it because they also imported steel. I'm wondering if they were also a wholesaler. 

[TheSker]

4 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Ok so they aren't an importer of Alum?  I was reading it that they import alum for their cans - but if they don't then beer will remain the same  !!  So that would be a double

I don't know the answer which is why it will be interesting to get my acquaintance's opinion.

 

I'm in no way suggesting prices won't go up, but I do wonder how much longer we can keep increasing our consumption and decreasing production.

[Moiraine]

2 hours ago, TheSker said:

Yes, there is support from the obvious....U.S. steel companies, labor unions and Democrats Sherrod Brown of Ohio and Bob Casey of Pennsylvania.

 

 

I had seen a steel company against it, so that's why i asked (explanation above).

[TGHusker]

9 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Obviously the domestic steel companies came out immediately and loved the idea.  Problem is, (going from memory) there is only something like 150,000 US workers in the steel and aluminum industry.  Meanwhile, there is something like 6.5 million in industries that use steel.  So, you are disrupting 6.5 million jobs to maybe increase the number of steel workers from 150,000.

 

I also just watched a story on CNBC where they were reporting from a  steel plant.  They were saying this is one of the most advanced steel plants in the world and the direction the industry is going.  It was all animated.

 

So....even if Drumpf would drastically increase the tons of domestic steel produced, the steel jobs aren't coming back.

 

We need to concentrate on the value added products.  Companies that bring in steel and turn them into actual products for consumers.  

Bush's former Com Sec agrees with you.    Like most of us, he thinks Trump is an idiot but uses a milder term - 'a little naive'

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/carlos-gutierrez-trump-tariff/2018/03/05/id/846813/

 

Quote

 

Gutierrez, currently the chairman of Albright Stonebridge Group, ran the Commerce Department under former President George W. Bush from 2005 to 2009. On CNBC's "Squawk Box" Monday, he said that jobs in the steel and aluminum industry have been in decline since 1953.

And to suggest that we're going to bring back these industries is a little naive," said the former Kellogg chairman and CEO. "Why is it that you're focused on bringing back industries that have been in a decades-long decline instead of creating new industries?"

On Sunday, Gutierrez told NPR's "All Things Considered" that Trump's idea of tariffs is nothing new, and will do more to harm the U.S. than to help, describing it as "the opening salvo to what could be a trade war," and noting that "trade wars are bad. No one wins. And they're very difficult to stop."

We're talking about tariffs for all steel and all aluminum imports from everywhere in the world," he continued. "Our biggest exporter or our biggest source of aluminum and steel happens to be Canada, who's an ally."

Gutierrez added that Trump's idea "really is designed to protect U.S. steel and U.S. aluminum. That's the theory. What we have learned over the years is that protectionism doesn't protect. Protectionism actually harms.

"And this is so much bigger than steel and aluminum because what we're doing is challenging the world trade system that we played an important part in bringing together. So that's a problem."

 

 

Meanwhile Drumpf double downs on stupidity.

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/trump-tariff-steel-aluminum/2018/03/05/id/846867/

[BigRedBuster]

36 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

I've seen at least one Steel company complaining about it because they also imported steel. I'm wondering if they were also a wholesaler. 

 

I'm not sure what company you are talking about.  But, I would guess that you are actually talking about a wholesaler and not an actual producer of steel.

[RedDenver]

40 minutes ago, TheSker said:

I don't know the answer which is why it will be interesting to get my acquaintance's opinion.

 

I'm in no way suggesting prices won't go up, but I do wonder how much longer we can keep increasing our consumption and decreasing production.

Indefinitely if the rest of the world has or can create sufficient production.

[BigRedBuster]

I usually don't claim the stock market is a major indicator of much.  But, I think it's pretty telling that ever since Trump had his little temper tantrum and announced these, the stock market has been going down.  Then, top Republicans came out today and announced they are against it and will do what they can to prevent them......and the stock market is back up.  

 

I think it's an indication of how many industries (and their employees) would be hurt by them compared to how many would be helped by them.

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, TheSker said:

I don't know the answer which is why it will be interesting to get my acquaintance's opinion.

 

I'm in no way suggesting prices won't go up, but I do wonder how much longer we can keep increasing our consumption and decreasing production.

 

This is the entire basis of globalism. Let countries do what they excel at & more cheaply import what they're not adept at if they still need those materials/products.

 

BRB laid out the biggest reason why one should oppose these tariffs, just as they should've been against his solar/washing machine tariffs. The numbers in terms of people helped vs. people hurt don't add up at all. Trump, the business genius, can't be bothered with a simple cost-benefit analysis.

 

By the way, @BigRedBuster... I tend to just think that is why the stock market is a poor indicator of a country's economy in the first place. Way too reactionary.

[TheSker]

16 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

 

This is the entire basis of globalism. Let countries do what they excel at & more cheaply import what they're not adept at if they still need those materials/products.

 

BRB laid out the biggest reason why one should oppose these tariffs, just as they should've been against his solar/washing machine tariffs. The numbers in terms of people helped vs. people hurt don't add up at all. Trump, the business genius, can't be bothered with a simple cost-benefit analysis.

 

By the way, @BigRedBuster... I tend to just think that is why the stock market is a poor indicator of a country's economy in the first place. Way too reactionary.

Except trade is not balanced, and the U.S. is increasingly on the short end of that stick.

 

Things like unfair trade practices and currency manipulation can also occur.

 

Tariffs are as much a political maneuver as financial.

 

I would not agree that it's simple.

Edited March 5, 2018 by TheSker

[BigRedBuster]

24 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

 

By the way, @BigRedBuster... I tend to just think that is why the stock market is a poor indicator of a country's economy in the first place. Way too reactionary.

 

Oh definitely.  I never look at it as any indication of how the economy is doing and nobody should.  But....we all know how our dear leader has looked at it the last 12 months.

[Moiraine]

4 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Oh definitely.  I never look at it as any indication of how the economy is doing and nobody should.  But....we all know how our dear leader has looked at it the last 12 months.

 

 

Trump is the cause of all things good.

 

Obama and/or Clinton are the cause of all things bad.

 

 

Simple logic for a simple man.