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Sexism - It's a Real Thing


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In an effort to restart the discussion that has spiraled off in the Woodshed ....

 

These are things I've read today - this isn't an issue?

 

  • "As for Brenda Tracy.....let's just say she's not as pure as snow."
  •  "Mansplaining" just seems like an attempt from feminists to play the victim."
  • "[...] do I feel that these inequalities facing women/minorities are often exaggerated? Yes, from what I've seen [...]
  • the obstacles facing non-whites/males aren't as steep as they're made out to be."

 

Harvey Weinstein is the latest ... Trump, Ailes, O'Reilly, Cosby ... the list is long and these are just the big name ones that have had people come out and speak about it.

 

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As a white man, white men think everyones experience is no different than theirs. Even if they see inequality it is ignored because "no one has ever done that to me of course that isn't a thing" Those comments you pointed out just go to show how strong privilege can be. It's hard for white men to realize that they actually have it pretty easy and other people don't have the same opportunities so then when they see others struggling, it's their own fault because the white man did just fine for himself and he did it by pulling himself up by his bootstraps(or so he thinks)

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Don't mean to post 2 in a row but another thing to consider is that equality, in all forms, is a major change to the status quo. If white men feel as if they are losing some of the power, it is natural they would push back against the ideas taking that power away. It's one reason why you see such outrage over people of color protesting. 

 

The longer white men can ignore inequality and keep things the way they are the longer they can stay in control. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

As a white man, white men think everyones experience is no different than theirs. Even if they see inequality it is ignored because "no one has ever done that to me of course that isn't a thing" Those comments you pointed out just go to show how strong privilege can be. It's hard for white men to realize that they actually have it pretty easy and other people don't have the same opportunities so then when they see others struggling, it's their own fault because the white man did just fine for himself and he did it by pulling himself up by his bootstraps(or so he thinks)

 

This is a big phenomenon I've noticed in general when trying to talk about complex, controversial issues like sexism or people kneeling during the anthem. It always seems to me that the people that get the most upset and take greatest offense as the suggestion of either of these (particularly kneeling, lately). They seem so angry and aggrieved at the fact people would kneel during the anthem (or at the suggestion that sexism could play a role in why they earn more than women, rather than purely sheer skill & utility to their company), and tend to be the ones who most vigorously attack the offending party.

 

I can only assume it's because they have an issue feeling empathy. Surely highly nationalist or job conversations will bring a good deal of emotion into play, and people aren't that rational if too much emotion is involved. But it seems to me a lot of these folks I talk with just have a real issue putting themselves in someone else's shoes & trying to understand their plight.

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Well said to everyone. I think one thing to emphasize is that it needn’t be seen as zero sum. If there exists privilege, shouldn’t that privilege be extended to everyone? If it tends to not be by default, then shouldn’t we take care to make the effort to do so?

 

To the latter point, there’s often some bristling at the “mental tax” imposed upon us for having to do extra work to accommodate others. That being the spirit of humanity itself notwithstanding, consider also the tax borne and paid by others on a daily basis in order to deal with all the stuff you don’t have to. A single among many examples:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, dudeguyy said:

 

They seem so angry and aggrieved at the fact people would kneel during the anthem (or at the suggestion that sexism could play a role in why they earn more than women, rather than purely sheer skill & utility to their company), and tend to be the ones who most vigorously attack the offending party.

 

 

It's white fragility. When you grow up with a paradigm that your experience is the default one, you naturally assume that you are in control of all the things that effect your life, and the same is true for others. A lot of people feel really threatened and attacked by being exposed to the idea that they've benefitted from a system designed to give them an advantage, often on the heel of other people. They hear it as someone dismissing their accomplishments, attacking their self-worth, blaming them for the things that have hurt them, etc.

 

 

 

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Dr. Robin DiAngelo, a White critical racial and social justice educator who created the term “White Fragility,” breaks it down like this:

 

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.

 

2016-07-11-1468243391-8355961-table.png

 

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/anna-kegler/the-sugarcoated-language-of-white-fragility_b_10909350.html

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I don't disagree with her assessment of the problem, but the term "White fragility" seems unnecessarily combative.

 

If you want White people to understand biases that they may not innately realize they have, telling them that they're "fragile" is not going to put them in a receptive mood.

 

 

EDIT - looked this woman up.  "Unnecessarily combative" is not correct. It's exactly the kind of combative thing she's after.  Yeesh.  :o

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Sexism is something that is very frustrating for me as a manager.  I do fight it and have to be conscious of it all the time in the work place.  Many times I have been in a meeting or in the workplace where I have had to openly confront an idiot who is being negative towards a woman doing a certain job or taking their comments or ideas seriously.

 

We have some very good female workers in our company and welcome more.  It's a shame when a work place doesn't get as much benefit as they can for employing them simply because of some idiot who can't handle working with them because of his own immaturity or inadequacies.  

 

A famous example of this was when Annika Sorenstam entered and played an event on the PGA tour.  Vijay Singh refused to play the tournament because he was protesting a woman being allowed to play.  I thought...WTF???  Of all people in the game, YOU as a black man, have a discriminatory attitude towards another minority?  AND.....he obviously was scared the woman would beat him and his petty little ego just couldn't handle that.

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I don't disagree with her assessment of the problem, but the term "White fragility" seems unnecessarily combative.

 

If you want White people to understand biases that they may not innately realize they have, telling them that they're "fragile" is not going to put them in a receptive mood.

 

 

EDIT - looked this woman up.  "Unnecessarily combative" is not correct. It's exactly the kind of combative thing she's after.  Yeesh.  :o

 

 

 

It's not my term, but I don't know what would describe it better tbh. We all, at least to start, are extremely fragile about race, or as men about gender, and the privileges associated. Not that I would utter that in front of my uncle from Hartington, though :P

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35 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Sexism is something that is very frustrating for me as a manager.  I do fight it and have to be conscious of it all the time in the work place.  Many times I have been in a meeting or in the workplace where I have had to openly confront an idiot who is being negative towards a woman doing a certain job or taking their comments or ideas seriously.

 

We have some very good female workers in our company and welcome more.  It's a shame when a work place doesn't get as much benefit as they can for employing them simply because of some idiot who can't handle working with them because of his own immaturity or inadequacies.  

 

A famous example of this was when Annika Sorenstam entered and played an event on the PGA tour.  Vijay Singh refused to play the tournament because he was protesting a woman being allowed to play.  I thought...WTF???  Of all people in the game, YOU as a black man, have a discriminatory attitude towards another minority?  AND.....he obviously was scared the woman would beat him and his petty little ego just couldn't handle that.

 

 

 

 

Vigay Singh isn't "black" or African American, he's from Fiji.

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Combative women are the worst kinds of women, amirite.

 

Silicon Valley misses the boat. Another (more incisive?) take on the story:

 

And...

This lack of self awareness is pretty common. Not to go nuclear on this guy, but let's be real: the blind spot he exhibits is there by default. It takes effort and practice to avoid it. Start by acknowledging and not getting defensive over its presence.

 

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31 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

I never said what nationality he was.  I know he isn't American.

But, you were trying to make a point using Singh "being black".  While his skin color is dark, I am not sure if he feels "discriminated against" because he's native Fijian.  He probably doesn't identify himself with a black-American, because he sees himself totally different.

 

Regarding his stance on Annika Sorenstam, I understand that sponsor's exemptions are to be handed out on the discretion of the individual tournament, but Sorenstam wasn't going to realistically compete against the men.  There are reasons why there are men's tours and women's tours in specific sports.  It was ridiculous when people got all mad when John McEnroe said that Serena Williams one of the best "women's tennis players" of all time.  In sports like tennis, there is a huge difference between the men's tour and the women's tour.  If Serena Williams were going to try and play on the men's tour, she wouldn't crack the top 500 players in the world.  Serena Williams has said as much.

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