Sexism - It's a Real Thing

[jsneb83]

42 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Their Biblical role... like Priscilla?  Or Ruth & Esther? Or Miriam or Deborah? Or the two Marys?

 

Really wonder what women he's talking about.

He's probably talking about where it says that wives must serve their husbands.

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, jsneb83 said:

He's probably talking about where it says that wives must serve their husbands.

 

If so, he's conveniently forgetting the rest of that passage about husbands loving their wives "as their own bodies."

[BigRedBuster]

I listened to most of the sermon.

The biggest issue with what he said was that he just keyed on women. 

 

He actually says quite clearly that what he is saying doesn't mean women can't have careers, be executives, be board directors.....do whatever they want to do as a career.  The message he is trying to say is their first responsibility is to be a good wife and mother.  NOW....I wouldn't have a problem with the message if he would then turn around and say the same thing about men....their first responsibility is to be a good husband and father.

I DO believe that.  My roll in my family is way more important to me than my job and career and I would have no problem with a Priest telling me that.

 

The problem is, he just concentrates on women.  Which....makes me wonder what the context of the sermon was.  Does he, on some other Sunday, give a similar sermon about men?

 

At this point, the sermon, by itself, leaves me uncomfortable.  But, to totally condemn the guy, I would have to know him and listen to other sermons from him.  

This seems like something the Democrat contender has latched onto and is using to discredit him.

[knapplc]

6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

This seems like something the Democrat contender has latched onto and is using to discredit him.

 

Seems like he has a pretty biblical objection to the tone of the sermon - kind of like what you outlined above.

 

Quote

 

Democrat Dan McCready, who is facing Harris in this year's midterms, slammed the sermon, saying it reflected someone who is "out of step."

 

"As a Christian, I believe that we are all created in God's image," McCready said in a statement, according to the News & Observer. "That means men and women are equally valuable and equally capable and should be treated as such in their homes, careers, and in society. Mr. Harris' comments suggest otherwise. This is just another example of how out of step Mr. Harris is — not just with this district but with this century."   

 

 

[Fru]

"Girls are taught from grade school ... that what is most honorable in life is a career, and their ultimate goal in life is simply to be able to grow up and be independent of anyone or anything. But nobody has seemed to ask the question that I think is critically important to ask: Is that a healthy pursuit for society? Is that the healthiest pursuit for our homes? ... Is that the healthiest pursuit for the sexes in our generation?"

 

Seems pretty sexist to me. 

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

Seems like he has a pretty biblical objection to the tone of the sermon - kind of like what you outlined above.

 

 

 

What I'm saying is, this sermon alone isn't a good look.  However, I have no clue if he believes men and women are created equal or not.  He very well may and at some other point in his preaching, he hits on the importance of men in the family and how it's more important than a career.

 

Like I said, he very clearly states in the sermon that what he is saying doesn't mean women can't do whatever they want for a job and career.  If I remember correctly, he even specifically states that he doesn't mean they are supposed to just be "barefoot and pregnant."

 

I would need more information on the guy to condemn him for this sermon.....which the Democrat is trying to do.

[Fru]

6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

What I'm saying is, this sermon alone isn't a good look.  However, I have no clue if he believes men and women are created equal or not.  He very well may and at some other point in his preaching, he hits on the importance of men in the family and how it's more important than a career.

 

Like I said, he very clearly states in the sermon that what he is saying doesn't mean women can't do whatever they want for a job and career.  If I remember correctly, he even specifically states that he doesn't mean they are supposed to just be "barefoot and pregnant."

 

I would need more information on the guy to condemn him for this sermon.....which the Democrat is trying to do.

 

Then why comment question women pursuing careers in the first place? 

[Moiraine]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

I listened to most of the sermon.

The biggest issue with what he said was that he just keyed on women. 

 

He actually says quite clearly that what he is saying doesn't mean women can't have careers, be executives, be board directors.....do whatever they want to do as a career.  The message he is trying to say is their first responsibility is to be a good wife and mother.  NOW....I wouldn't have a problem with the message if he would then turn around and say the same thing about men....their first responsibility is to be a good husband and father.

I DO believe that.  My roll in my family is way more important to me than my job and career and I would have no problem with a Priest telling me that.

 

The problem is, he just concentrates on women.  Which....makes me wonder what the context of the sermon was.  Does he, on some other Sunday, give a similar sermon about men?

 

At this point, the sermon, by itself, leaves me uncomfortable.  But, to totally condemn the guy, I would have to know him and listen to other sermons from him.  

This seems like something the Democrat contender has latched onto and is using to discredit him.

 

 

Do you honestly believe he has sermon(s) where he tells men they're too career-focused? Because that's the issue here. It seems intuitively obvious that he's singling out women which happens all too often in churches when it comes to their role. If he wasn't singling out women he would've done what you said. He would have given a sermon to the entire family or the parents about focusing on the important things in life. Instead he talked about the harm in teaching girls these things.

 

You are giving him too much benefit of the doubt. It would have been a simple matter to aim it at men and women, boys and girls, but he didn't because that's not how he feels about it.

 

I went to church pretty much every Sunday for 18 years and while it generally wasn't a focus it was pretty clear that this was the attitude. Also women can't be deacons or elders. It's not rare to find his attitude in Christians including in women so it seems odd to go to lengths to assume he didn't mean it the way it sounded.

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Fru said:

 

Then why comment question women pursuing careers in the first place? 

 

Why would I think I can have a career and do what I want with my job even though I know my family is more important?

[BigRedBuster]

1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Do you honestly believe he has sermon(s) where he tells men they're too career-focused? Because that's the issue here. It seems intuitively obvious that he's singling out women which happens all too often in churches when it comes to their role. If he wasn't singling out women he would've done what you said. He would have given a sermon to the entire family or the parents about focusing on the important things in life. Instead he talked about the harm in teaching girls these things.

 

You are giving him too much benefit of the doubt. It would have been a simple matter to aim it at men and women, boys and girls, but he didn't because that's not how he feels about it.

 

I went to church pretty much every Sunday for 18 years and while it generally wasn't a focus it was pretty clear that this was the attitude. Also women can't be deacons or elders. It's not rare to find his attitude in Christians including in women so it seems odd to go to lengths to assume he didn't mean it the way it sounded.

 

I can only go off of what I read here and my personal experiences.

 

I've known ministers to give sermons, for instance, focused on women's importance of being mothers around mother's day and separate sermons on fathers and the importance of being a father around father's day.

 

Like I said before...you may be very correct in your assessment.  I'm just not confident in that assessment with nothing more than what is here.

[knapplc]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

 

Why would I think I can have a career and do what I want with my job even though I know my family is more important?

 

Are you asking that as the generic female in this scenario or the generic male? Because both genders have to ask themselves the same question, and likely have the same answer:  "Because I need to provide for my family."

[BigRedBuster]

Just now, knapplc said:

 

Are you asking that as the generic female in this scenario or the generic male? Because both genders have to ask themselves the same question, and likely have the same answer:  "Because I need to provide for my family."

 

I agree.

[Fru]

36 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Why would I think I can have a career and do what I want with my job even though I know my family is more important?

 

If he gave the preface of "this doesn't mean women can't do XYZ" then what exactly was the point of him going down the path of questioning women making their own decisions? 

[BigRedBuster]

57 minutes ago, Fru said:

 

If he gave the preface of "this doesn't mean women can't do XYZ" then what exactly was the point of him going down the path of questioning women making their own decisions? 

 

I'm not sure I remember him saying women can't make their own decisions.

[Fru]

7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I'm not sure I remember him saying women can't make their own decisions.

 

Here's his exact quote. 

 

"Girls are taught from grade school ... that what is most honorable in life is a career, and their ultimate goal in life is simply to be able to grow up and be independent of anyone or anything. But nobody has seemed to ask the question that I think is critically important to ask: Is that a healthy pursuit for society? Is that the healthiest pursuit for our homes? ... Is that the healthiest pursuit for the sexes in our generation?"

 

He believes it's critical to ask whether or not it's healthy for girls to grow up to be independent. 

 

Again. Sounds sexist to me.