Development vs. Talent

[B.B. Hemingway]

3 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Not trying to take away anything from those guys because they've all been pretty good - especially Morgan and Spielman - but a lot of that also has to do with us having the third-most passing attempts in the B1G and having basically four scholarship receivers available.

 

No doubt. Spielman is going to annihilate Swifty's freshman records, because that running game just isn't going to happen in 2017.

[Vince R.]

I believe one of the most critical errors this staff made was moving Gates to LT. It created a negative domino effect that hurt this offense tremendously. 

[Toe]

I keep looking back at the 2014 class. Foster, Farmer, and Gates were all 4* guys on at least two sites, as was Wilbon. Back then, I thought we should have a pretty solid running game right about now. Yeah.....

[I.M. OLD]

20 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

It is so friggen frustrating that for so long (many years) it seems like we get some hot recruit and they don't pan out to be anywhere close to as good as advertised.

 

When that happens once or twice, that can be simply missing on an evaluation.  But, when it happens over and over and over again in the same program over multiple coaching staffs, it's systemic some how within the program.

 

We haven't recruited at a top 10 level.  We have had multiple classes in the 20-30 range.  Then, when you have the top recruits in those classes not pan out, it is almost impossible to compete with the schools who recruit top 10 all the time.

What were did MSU classes look like before the run they had before last years meltdown? Is Wisconsin in the top 20 every year in recruiting? How's Iowa State's looking. I will grant that it's almost impossible to win it all, but with a good to very good coach our classes should win enough to be 9-10-11 games depending upon the schedule in the west and be ranked from 8-20 on a fairly regular basis. Pick up a homerun or a couple of unknown or overlooked guys and look live MSU did a couple of years ago.

[melscott62]

I get tired of the "Nebraska is so hard to recruit to"  is it hard to recruit championship talent here? Absolutely!!! But we aren't coming even remotely close to that level. We are laughably far away from that.  But what about compared to our peers?  Wisconsin? Iowa? Minnesota? Iowa state? K state? How about places like Washington state? Missouri?  Those places either currently are or have recently had more(to significantly more) success than we have.  IMO somewhere near wisconsin should the minimum expectation(we are nowhere close to that) and recruiting isn't the reason for that discrepancy. It's all coaching.  

[chamrocck]

23 hours ago, Dewiz said:

It’s a development problem. We’re getting talent far better than Iowa and Wisconsin which is a fact but come game time when it really matters, they’re out playing us, more physical and play fundamental football.  

Agree with this.  A big problem for us is that we have not recruited OL and DL well.  When I think of OL I think of Wisconsin and Iowa.  Both use the TE effectively (a position that has disappeared at NU).  Maybe someone knows how our OL recruits have compared to them over years?  We do land a couple skill player recruits like at WR or DB but then with no one to protect our QB and no one to get after the opponent QB, suddenly these skill players have to do a lot more and at times it looks like they are not progressing.  We needed to recruit OL and DL building that as the foundation.  If you have good OL and DL it is amazing how ordinary skill players become really good and we say "wow those guys are developing".      

[BigRedBuster]

2 hours ago, I.M. OLD said:

What were did MSU classes look like before the run they had before last years meltdown? Is Wisconsin in the top 20 every year in recruiting? How's Iowa State's looking. I will grant that it's almost impossible to win it all, but with a good to very good coach our classes should win enough to be 9-10-11 games depending upon the schedule in the west and be ranked from 8-20 on a fairly regular basis. Pick up a homerun or a couple of unknown or overlooked guys and look live MSU did a couple of years ago.

 

Notjing I wrote disagrees with this. 

 

But, the difference between us and MSU, Wisconsin and ISU is that they are getting the most out of their players, especially the top ones in their classes. 

[southernoregonhusker]

3 hours ago, chamrocck said:

Agree with this.  A big problem for us is that we have not recruited OL and DL well.  When I think of OL I think of Wisconsin and Iowa.  Both use the TE effectively (a position that has disappeared at NU).  Maybe someone knows how our OL recruits have compared to them over years?  We do land a couple skill player recruits like at WR or DB but then with no one to protect our QB and no one to get after the opponent QB, suddenly these skill players have to do a lot more and at times it looks like they are not progressing.  We needed to recruit OL and DL building that as the foundation.  If you have good OL and DL it is amazing how ordinary skill players become really good and we say "wow those guys are developing".      

Add LB and I totally agree with your post.  We may "out recruit" our West bretheren according to the beatniks, but we have done so in the skill positions.  Those recruiting victories don't mean squat if you can't block anybody or make tackles due to lack of speed or bad technique.

[URSS]

The topic was development versus recruitment- seems to imply iits an OR discussion. It should be development AND recruitment Plus Coaching.  Even if we recruuted twenty 5 star recruits, we still need to teach fundamentals, develop their athletic abilities, motivate them and meld them into disciplined units and then tweak the schemes and game plans for the games.  Coaches have to provide the leadership and everything else.  Riley and crew are not getting the job done.  I do not believe the blackshirts are duds.  They are much better than the results.  The coaching is the biggest problem.  

The offensive line is another problem.  They lack agility, quickness and speed And probably stamina.  This is another coaching let down.

 

Someone posted a list of 1997 offensive starters- 9 of the 11 were from Nebraska.  Does anyone know how many of them were 4 star recruits?  Did Nebarska run out of good high schoolers after 1998 or did the coaches not look hard? 

[Danny Bateman]

It's clearly development.

 

Our recruiting could be better, yes, and will likely need to be if we ever hope to rejoin the elite and stay there.

 

But our recruiting is consistently top in our division, and near top 3-4 in the B10 (PSU, OSU, Mich probably pull in better classes year to year). When we're outrecruiting everyone in the West by such a wide margin, there's no reason we should be struggling to go .500 ANY year. The results just aren't commensurate with who we get to Lincoln, and haven't been for quite some time. This problem dates way back. 

[lo country]

On 11/4/2017 at 5:16 PM, southernoregonhusker said:

Add LB and I totally agree with your post.  We may "out recruit" our West bretheren according to the beatniks, but we have done so in the skill positions.  Those recruiting victories don't mean squat if you can't block anybody or make tackles due to lack of speed or bad technique.

Yep.  Not in the trenches or the "teeth" of the defense..... You don't win in the trenches, you could have Tom Brady and Randy Moss and still be horrific....or Sanders and Reevis as DB's and get beat like a drum.......

[Hunter94]

look at Iowa, very seldom do they have a really good RB or QB, but they recruit and coach up linemen that go on to the NFL......they have a culture and recruit these kids who love to play in the trenches............that used to be us.

[BigRedBuster]

Didn't think this deserves it's own thread.  But, I enjoy following these discussions on twitter.  These guys get into discussions about various plays and film.

 

Anyway,  I found this clip interesting.  For the post part, I think Ozigbo is a serviceable back and know this is just one play.  But....this play shows very poor field vision.  There are several places on this play where he could have gained more yards than he got.  In fact, it appears to me, he went right into where there is the biggest chance of him getting tackled for the fewest yards.

 

 

[FrankWheeler]

If you look at the play frame by frame, the linebacker does his job and crashes.  Ozigbo reads Jaimes and cuts off of him.  I think if Ozigbo cut it left its more likely that backer makes the tackle for no gain.

[BigRedBuster]

6 minutes ago, worldsworstoutdoorsman said:

If you look at the play frame by frame, the linebacker does his job and crashes.  Ozigbo reads Jaimes and cuts off of him.  I think if Ozigbo cut it left its more likely that backer makes the tackle for no gain.

I can see that.  But, why, after he is around the lineman making a block, does he cut right into the tackle instead of taking on the smaller safety that is still a couple yards away?

 

Instead of taking on a single smaller player, he cuts right into two larger players that easily make the play.

Edited November 7, 2017 by BigRedBuster