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Thoughts and Prayers!!!


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And this is why we should not be surprised that this happened.  There is no intent for it NOT to happen.  People don't make money when guns/ammo/gun parts aren't sold.

 

 

It will happen again and again and again and again while we continue to put profit over peoples' lives.

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I heard on the radio the typical reaction to reasonable gun control - in various forms but it generally was stated this way :  1. Guns don't kill people , people kill people.  and   2.  If he didn't have a gun, he'd use something else because the gun isn't evil, the heart of the person is evil (or the mind of the person has a mental issue). 

While those statements are technically true, it misses the point.  The accessibility of guns make it much easier for evil and people wt mental issues to make the wrong decision and follow through wt that decision.    I'm not sure what the solution is but if the politicians keep yelling pass each other their won't be a solution.  I actually place the weight of the 'yelling' on the side of those politicians who are 100% vested wt the NRA - they do their bidding wtout question and use their talking points on and on.  I'm a believer in 2nd Amend rights but something has got to be done. 

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1 hour ago, Nebfanatic said:

OK I had read that somewhere. Still most everything I said wouldn't have restricted that guy from buying an AR. But perhaps if the gun seller had been more vigilant in looking into the terrorists past he wouldn't have been sold a gun. Laws that make sure guys like this aren't allowed to slip through the cracks aren't going to affect most gun owners and if it does effect you, maybe you shouldn't own a gun. 

 

The question posed to our president was solely about extreme vetting. Trump thinks it's necessary for immigration, why not guns? 

 

The problem is Trump (and most everyone in the GOP I've seen argue against gun control) are arguing with a strawman.

 

Trump is arguing that by cracking down on guns, we're somehow going to take guns away from the good guys (the hero in this story) but NOT the bad guy (the shooter). He seems to be arguing against a complete gun ban in which the bad guys somehow still find guns (which is a popular talking point for pro-gun folks).

 

The problem is no one I know is arguing that. If they are, they certainly aren't in the mainstream. Most folks are just crying out to do something! Anything we do has to be better than this. Hell, if we even followed the laws on the books (and the Air Force reported this guy's domestic abuse history), Sunderland Springs may not have happened.

 

But Trump and others in his party insist on arguing against an argument no one is making, because it serves their agenda to argue absolutes & make everything black & white. Nuance is hard. 

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10 minutes ago, dudeguyy said:

 

The problem is Trump (and most everyone in the GOP I've seen argue against gun control) are arguing with a strawman.

 

Trump is arguing that by cracking down on guns, we're somehow going to take guns away from the good guys (the hero in this story) but NOT the bad guy (the shooter). He seems to be arguing against a complete gun ban in which the bad guys somehow still find guns (which is a popular talking point for pro-gun folks).

 

The problem is no one I know is arguing that. If they are, they certainly aren't in the mainstream. Most folks are just crying out to do something! Anything we do has to be better than this. Hell, if we even followed the laws on the books (and the Air Force reported this guy's domestic abuse history), Sunderland Springs may not have happened.

 

But Trump and others in his party insist on arguing against an argument no one is making, because it serves their agenda to argue absolutes & make everything black & white. Nuance is hard. 

You hit it right on the nose. Great post.

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If someone was able to take an automatic weapon into an elementary school and kill innocent children....you think they care about this? Anyone who has stupid dumbass comments like "Lets take away large vehicles since they can kill people too." I literally would love to throw you off a bridge. Anyone with common sense knows that trying to crack down on guns isn't an easy solution, but to keep dismissing every shooting because you like to shoot targets in your backyard....no one cares.

America has almost double the guns as the next country per capita. We also spend almost triple the amount on our military than the next country. I wonder if those two issues have anything to do with why America has the vast majority of these events? Yes 

 

Image result for us military spending by country

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Via this Newsmax article, Fox was giving cover to the NRA today on this.   Below is NRA's position per their spokesperson.

 

Below that Paul Ryan's solution - Enforce the laws on the book.  Yes needful - I agree. But more has to be done.

 

 

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/nra-enforcement-gun-laws-solve/2017/11/07/id/824667/

 

The solution to preventing massacres where firearms are used, such as the one in the Texas church on Sunday, is not more gun control legislation, but to properly enforce the laws that are already on the books, NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch told "Fox & Friends" on Tuesday.

"The NRA has fought for 20 years to make sure that people who are adjudicated mentally unfit, that these records are added to the system," Loesch said. "Then we keep seeing these occurrences that are taking place and people who are able to purchase a firearm, because of human error or because they fell through the system."

She said that 38 states report fewer than 80 percent of felony convictions to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which means there are some 7 million felony convictions that go unreported.

"This is why this law needs to be enforced. But politicians have to call for those records to be submitted," Loesch said.

She also noted that the Texas church shooter Devin Kelley reportedly lied on Federal Form 4473, which those who want to buy a gun must complete. He reportedly checked a box that he had not been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

"In 2010, you had 80,000 prohibited possessors that tried to purchase a firearm through their 4473. That's an actionable offense. And yet, guess how many of those were prosecuted? 44," Loesch said. "This has to change and politicians have to call for it, especially the ones calling for gun control today."

 

Loesch also pointed out that it is important to note that there were good people with guns in the area of the church who took action and prevented the tragedy from being even worse than it was.

She said this was another indication that "when evil is engaged by good, evil flees," which is why it is crucial that law-abiding citizens have the right to carry weapons.

 

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/359107-ryan-enforcing-existing-laws-would-have-prevented-texas-massacre

 

Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said Tuesday that enforcing existing laws would have prevented the mass shooting at a church in rural Texas that left more than two dozen people dead over the weekend.

“How about enforcing the laws we’ve got on the books? This man should not have gotten a gun. You know why? Because he was a domestic abuser,” Ryan replied when a reporter from The Hill asked what other ideas the Speaker had to stop such mass shootings.

“We have laws on the books that says if you are a domestic abuser, you are not supposed to own a gun. He was a domestic abuser,” Ryan continued. “That’s why we’ve got all these questions with the Air Force right now. … How did this slip through the cracks? How is it that this person who was convicted of domestic abuse by the Air Force, how did he get through the system and get a gun? Because the laws we have right now on the books say a person like this should not have gotten a gun. … This man should not have had a gun in the first place.”

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thank god we can ban hand grenades, flamethrowers and bazookas.   we have enough common sense to ban those military grade weapons anyway.  i still think bump stocks, large capacity magazines, and armor piercing bullets should also be banned.   as far as i know hunters are only allowed to kill 1 deer at a time and those deer rarely if ever are wearing body armor.  

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Read a very scary account about the shooting in California this week.  I guess this happened as kids were getting to school and they were milling about before the start.  Secretary heard the first gun shots and rushed all the kids inside with the last kids getting in shortly before the gunman reached the school.  That's a frightening what if that might have matched or most likely surpassed Las Vegas and had been 1000% worse.

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He apparently "built" his guns that he used for this rampage.  I'm curious to know exactly what that means.  For now, people are just going to write this off as "see, he wasn't allowed to have guns and he still pulled it off!!!!!" and it will just get thrown on the stack with the rest of them....

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4 hours ago, funhusker said:

He apparently "built" his guns that he used for this rampage.  I'm curious to know exactly what that means.  For now, people are just going to write this off as "see, he wasn't allowed to have guns and he still pulled it off!!!!!" and it will just get thrown on the stack with the rest of them....

 

I have an acquaintance who builds AK47s.  Has about 25 of them he's built.   You can go on-line and order all the replacement parts you need and assemble it yourself.   If you learn how to take apart and assemble a weapon, you can find every piece you need on-line and order it.  And scary enough, if you order these, you can probably order and assemble without having to have a gun license to buy one.  Anyone with a credit card, a mailing address and access to the internet could build one from scratch.

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48 minutes ago, sho said:

 

I have an acquaintance who builds AK47s.  Has about 25 of them he's built.   You can go on-line and order all the replacement parts you need and assemble it yourself.   If you learn how to take apart and assemble a weapon, you can find every piece you need on-line and order it.  And scary enough, if you order these, you can probably order and assemble without having to have a gun license to buy one.  Anyone with a credit card, a mailing address and access to the internet could build one from scratch.

While it's a fine line I don't see why some legislation couldn't be brought forth to limit this type of practice if that is the case. 

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