The Democrat Utopia

[BigRedBuster]

The issue is that the vast majority of people who have an idea......don't think it's radical.  Other people who may not agree with that idea is going to label it RADICAL!!!!!!

 

You see that from both sides. (yes, I used those words).  It's the way people in power keep their sheep in the flock.  Label everything from the other side radical and it scares the sheep.

[Moiraine]

26 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

The issue is that the vast majority of people who have an idea......don't think it's radical.  Other people who may not agree with that idea is going to label it RADICAL!!!!!!

 

You see that from both sides. (yes, I used those words).  It's the way people in power keep their sheep in the flock.  Label everything from the other side radical and it scares the sheep.

 

 

 

I’m not someone who thinks there’s never a both sides argument. 

 

But I don’t think it applies here. I can’t think of any conservative ideas the Democrats call radical although I suppose they could use that word for the wall.

 

Usually the “radical” ideas are the ones that would help people the most but use tax payer $. And those are usually liberal ideas.

[Guy Chamberlin]

7 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

 

What? Why not reserve 100% of your criticism for all things that deserve proportionate criticism?

 

If you actually mean that statement then you've just given the Democratic party carte blanche freedom to do anything bad they want as long as they don't try to stop minorities from voting.

 

Because the criticism is so disproportionate. 

 

What I mean is just the opposite of what you suggest. It is so easy for people to express outrage over a photo of someone in blackface. It unites Democrats, Republicans, and all of social media. And we congratulate ourselves that we've come so far since.....1984 I guess. 

 

It's much harder to pay attention to the gutting of the presumably bedrock Voting Rights Act, or state gerrymandering designed to render the black vote meaningless. That's not a symbolic mistake by a 25 year old with zero influence. It's a galling show of pure racism by elected officials who see no reason to apologize. 

[BigRedBuster]

21 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

I’m not someone who thinks there’s never a both sides argument. 

 

But I don’t think it applies here. I can’t think of any conservative ideas the Democrats call radical although I suppose they could use that word for the wall.

 

Usually the “radical” ideas are the ones that would help people the most but use tax payer $. And those are usually liberal ideas.

 

There are lots of things some conservatives have been for now or in the past that liberals think are bat s#!t crazy (Radical).

 

The wall.

Lower taxes

Elimination of Estate Tax

Against sex education in schools

Anti Abortion laws

Reduce or eliminating departments of the government (Department of Education is an example)

 

I could go on.

 

 

[methodical]

3 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I have never ever ever sat around with fellow business owners talking about how wonderful it is to be able to control employees with health insurance. 

 

Most would LOVE to not have to deal with it. 

 

Your first paragraph is way off of he mark. 

 

Frankly as an employee I'd love to not have it tied to a specific workplace, just like I'd love to not have my 401k account tied to a specific workplace.  I am glad for the benefits because its how things are done now, but I'd be just as happy having my salary bumped up to match the cost of those benefits and paying taxes for healthcare and not having to deal with insurance companies.  I'm not naive enough to think employers enjoy dealing with it, but it does tie people to jobs when they might otherwise move to better jobs, because it's a gamble to lose coverage.  The fact that you don't do it for that reason doesn't mean it doesn't have that effect.

[methodical]

11 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

There are lots of things some conservatives have been for now or in the past that liberals think are bat s#!t crazy (Radical).

 

The wall.

Lower taxes

Elimination of Estate Tax

Against sex education in schools

Anti Abortion laws

Reduce or eliminating departments of the government (Department of Education is an example)

 

I could go on.

 

 

 

Family separation at the border

force feeding border detainees on hunger strikes

waterboarding

etc...  there's plenty of right wing policies put in place that are radical/extreme

[BigRedBuster]

15 minutes ago, methodical said:

 

Frankly as an employee I'd love to not have it tied to a specific workplace, just like I'd love to not have my 401k account tied to a specific workplace.  I am glad for the benefits because its how things are done now, but I'd be just as happy having my salary bumped up to match the cost of those benefits and paying taxes for healthcare and not having to deal with insurance companies.  I'm not naive enough to think employers enjoy dealing with it, but it does tie people to jobs when they might otherwise move to better jobs, because it's a gamble to lose coverage.  The fact that you don't do it for that reason doesn't mean it doesn't have that effect.

 

I think everyone would be happy if it were separated out.  It honestly is one of the biggest issues I hate dealing with and I know many other managers who agree with me.

 

Thing is, I'm not sure employees would really see a bump in salary because of it...but, at the same time, they wouldn't need to pay premiums, so...net net...they could be ahead.  There's a good chance everyone's taxes would need to go up to pay for it.  HOWEVER.....and this is the big thing.  I believe there's a strong chance that increase in taxes would be much less than what people are paying now in premiums.

 

THAT is what we need to be looking at.

[Moiraine]

34 minutes ago, methodical said:

 

Family separation at the border

force feeding border detainees on hunger strikes

waterboarding

etc...  there's plenty of right wing policies put in place that are radical/extreme

 

 

That wasn’t what I was arguing. I’m not arguing there aren’t awful Republican policies. I’m arguing the Democrats don’t go around accusing Republicans of having radical ideas.

 

“Radical” is largely used to describe ideas that haven’t been implemented, and used as a scare tactic. 

[Landlord]

6 hours ago, Moiraine said:

Radical doesn't just mean "a lot different" in politics. It also means "bad."

 

 

Historically, most radical governing bodies have been very, very bad and have resulted in a whole lot of people dying.

[Moiraine]

4 minutes ago, Landlord said:

Historically, most radical governing bodies have been very, very bad and have resulted in a whole lot of people dying.

 

 

You should elaborate. Because there is radical and there is “radical.” There are many ideas given that name that shouldn’t be given that name. E.g. universal healthcare. 

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Historically, most radical governing bodies have been very, very bad and have resulted in a whole lot of people dying.

Most (all?) democracies were a radical change from what came before. You're going to have to show a lot of evidence for that assertion to be taken seriously.

[Guy Chamberlin]

The American Revolution was extremely radical from the European point of view, including acts of terrorism.

 

Interestingly enough, giving the vote to non-landholders and women, much less abolishing slavery, was a little too radical for most of our revolutionary forefathers. 

[Danny Bateman]

6 hours ago, Moiraine said:

You should elaborate. Because there is radical and there is “radical.” There are many ideas given that name that shouldn’t be given that name. E.g. universal healthcare.

 

6 hours ago, Moiraine said:

You should elaborate. Because there is radical and there is “radical.” There are many ideas given that name that shouldn’t be given that name. E.g. universal healthcare.  

 

There is definitely a shifting definition of radical. I'd say avidly supporting dumping billions of dollars into a wall on the Southern border because it feels good is radical. It's also largely unpopular with the public.

 

On the other hand, Trump and Republicans call things like raising tax rates on wealthy people and universal healthcare "radical" because they know they lose the argument on the merits and can only resort to name calling. They're also incredibly popular with the public.

 

The problem is the GOP has a really sh#tty definition of "radical."

[B.B. Hemingway]

31 minutes ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

 

There is definitely a shifting definition of radical. I'd say avidly supporting dumping billions of dollars into a wall on the Southern border because it feels good is radical. It's also largely unpopular with the public.

 

On the other hand, Trump and Republicans call things like raising tax rates on wealthy people and universal healthcare "radical" because they know they lose the argument on the merits and can only resort to name calling. They're also incredibly popular with the public.

 

The problem is the GOP has a really sh#tty definition of "radical."

 

Poor people willing to take more of rich people's money? Who would of guessed it!

[knapplc]

1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

Poor people willing to take more of rich people's money? Who would of* guessed it!

 

*have