The Democrat Utopia

[Archy1221]

15 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Assuming that NO discrimination exists is not odd, it's flat wrong.

 

We know you know how to google. At this point you have to confront your unwillingness to see the problem for what it really is.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/redlining-what-is-history-mike-bloomberg-comments/

The typical homeowner in a neighborhood that was redlined for mortgage lending by the federal government has gained 52% less—or $212,023 less—in personal wealth generated by property value increases than one in a greenlined neighborhood over the last 40 years. 

 

1). What % of homeowners own the same hime for 40 years?  
2). What is the condition of the home in those areas in question comparison?  
3) what exact neighborhoods are they comparing?  Is it apples to apples neighborhoods or apples to oranges neighborhoods.  
4) read 1,2,and 3 then we can discuss further 

[Archy1221]

17 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Gosh, if only there were studies...

HOLC “Redlining” Maps: The Persistent Structure Of Segregation And Economic Inequality

Is this mandated now?  I mean, are only minorities allowed to live in those neighborhoods? can people not get good jobs, make money and move?  
 

 “Additionally, most of the HOLC graded “Hazardous” areas (nearly 64%) are minority neighborhoods now.”

 

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

2 hours ago, RedDenver said:

It was me. I was laughing at the fact that he believes system racism can be solved with a little self-accountability.

Decades of systemic racism can be fix with some good 'ol American pick-yerself-up-by-the-bootstraps.

 

There are dozens - if not hundreds of studies that address systemic racism. But there isn't a number we can link for him to believe it. His mind is made up.

 

But I'll try:

 

One about healthcare: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953613005121

 

Education: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=studies+systemic+racism&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3D53baAMW7E_QJ

 

There are hundreds of these. 

[Lorewarn]

2 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

There are so many reasons why loans are, or are not, give to people. Assuming the denial of a loan to  a black person is because of race is.... Odd. 

 

 

Who cares about the intent when the effect is crystal clear? 

[RedDenver]

2 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Is this mandated now?  I mean, are only minorities allowed to live in those neighborhoods? can people not get good jobs, make money and move?  
 

 “Additionally, most of the HOLC graded “Hazardous” areas (nearly 64%) are minority neighborhoods now.”

The study is the facts of what has happened. You have to try really hard to miss the point that minorities are far more impacted. Not all systemic racism is laws and mandates.

[Archy1221]

2 hours ago, RedDenver said:

The study is the facts of what has happened. You have to try really hard to miss the point that minorities are far more impacted. Not all systemic racism is laws and mandates.

No you don’t.  My question is valid.  Why is it that those communities in question are mostly minorities?  Why is it that Appalachian families are generationally poor? There is no law or mandate that says they have to live there.  There is no law or mandate that says they can only get a certain type of job, make a certain income, or do only so good in school or Not attend state schools, community colleges/trade apprenticeships, when it’s basically paid for by Pell grants, scholarships and working during school? 

[B.B. Hemingway]

53 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

No you don’t.  My question is valid.  Why is it that those communities in question are mostly minorities?  Why is it that Appalachian families are generationally poor? There is no law or mandate that says they have to live there.  There is no law or mandate that says they can only get a certain type of job, make a certain income, or do only so good in school or Not attend state schools, community colleges/trade apprenticeships, when it’s basically paid for by Pell grants, scholarships and working during school? 

 

It's almost like accountability and better decision making might matter in this discussion.

[Dr. Strangelove]

15 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

It's almost like accountability and better decision making might matter in this discussion.

It's almost like dozens of studies have been done concerning this very topic and you'll ignore them all to support your pre-existing views.

 

Look, I agree that personal decisions affect outcomes. But in our society minorities - especially black minorities - are not treated equally. They get less representation in government relative to their population, worse prison sentences for the crimes, worse education outcomes because minority school districts receive less funding, etc. The list goes on.

 

There are hundreds of studies on topics of systemic racism in Healthcare, education, policing, housing, etc. Many of these exist in the South and stem from decades of repression because of Jim Crow laws and other policies in other states dating back relatively recently. It's been essentially 1 generation of black minorities enjoying anything close to equality - that doesn't undo 200 years of laws specifically designed to repress and treat them like inferior p people. 

[Lorewarn]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Why is it that Appalachian families are generationally poor? There is no law or mandate that says they have to live there.  There is no law or mandate that says they can only get a certain type of job, make a certain income, or do only so good in school or Not attend state schools, community colleges/trade apprenticeships, when it’s basically paid for by Pell grants, scholarships and working during school? 

 

 

Tell me you only want to focus on blaming black people for their problems without telling me you only want to focus on blaming black people for their problems. 

[Ulty]

@Archy1221 and @B.B. Hemingway:

What are your personal theories regarding:

- Black families having less generational wealth and lower rates of home/land ownership than white families?

- Black people being denied home loans at a higher rate than white people?

- Black Americans being incarcerated at much higher rates than white Americans?

- Black people being arrested for marijuana possession at a much higher rate than white people, despite marijuana usage being similar?

- Black people shot by police at a much higher rate proportionally than white people?

- Black people and other minorities being under-represented in CEO and high-paying management positions?

- Black people and other minorities having higher rates of unemployment?

- Black children born into a poor household being less likely to move into a higher income bracket during their lives, compared to white children?

 

Why do you think these things have happened historically in our country? And why are they still happening now?

 

Before or after you answer, feel free to peruse these articles:

26 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America

 

Systemic Racism: 64 Practical Examples of the Challenges that Face Black Americans

 

 

[RedDenver]

10 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

No you don’t.  My question is valid.  Why is it that those communities in question are mostly minorities?  Why is it that Appalachian families are generationally poor? There is no law or mandate that says they have to live there.  There is no law or mandate that says they can only get a certain type of job, make a certain income, or do only so good in school or Not attend state schools, community colleges/trade apprenticeships, when it’s basically paid for by Pell grants, scholarships and working during school? 

 

9 hours ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

It's almost like accountability and better decision making might matter in this discussion.

I'm not sure if you two are really that ignorant of the history of our country or actually support continued systemic racism. There's dozens of studies showing you're wrong, and just learning about redlining and it's after effects would show it to you.

[Archy1221]

9 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Tell me you only want to focus on blaming black people for their problems without telling me you only want to focus on blaming black people for their problems. 

Tell me you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation without telling you having nothing of substance to add to the conversation. 

[Archy1221]

14 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I'm not sure if you two are really that ignorant of the history of our country or actually support continued systemic racism. There's dozens of studies showing you're wrong, and just learning about redlining and it's after effects would show it to you.

I’m not sure you actually understand what either of are saying.  I looked at the study you shared and had a basic thought that you don’t have an answer for aside from basically saying they have no chance since our country had a racist past.  Past being the key word.  It’s as if someone who is poor is just shut out of luck I guess.  The minority families that I know well and are doing good financially now who came from inner city KCK don’t actually exist I guess.  My new Vietnamese neighbor who came from nothing doesn’t actually exist.  My old Indian neighbor who’s family is dirt poor in India doesn’t exist. 

[Archy1221]

20 hours ago, RedDenver said:

This is exactly the heart of the disagreement between us.

 

I agree that he should have said "no comment" or "we can't talk about active investigations" or whatever instead of flat out denying it. Unless he actually did not know, then it makes sense.

 

And in your response to me, you continually assert facts but give no links or any way to verify what you're claiming, which is exactly what I've been saying - we need the facts to come out and not just assumptions about what happened or blindly believe media articles, particularly ones with obvious partisan leanings, without sources.

 

The same law could have implications for a Loudoun superintendent or principal in the wake of a May 28 alleged sexual assault in a bathroom — an incident first reported by The Daily Wire Monday. On June 22, Superintendent Scott Ziegler told the public, “To my knowledge, we don’t have any record of assaults occurring in our restrooms.”

Virginia law requires that “Reports shall be made to the division superintendent and to the principal or his designee on all incidents involving … sexual assault.”
 

 

[RedDenver]

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I’m not sure you actually understand what either of are saying.  I looked at the study you shared and had a basic thought that you don’t have an answer for aside from basically saying they have no chance since our country had a racist past.  Past being the key word.  It’s as if someone who is poor is just shut out of luck I guess.

You're basically saying that since the laws themselves no longer actually ban minorities like they used to, things are all better now. Like the Civil Rights Act waved a magic wand and everything wrong for hundreds of years was suddenly fixed. That's not how the real world works. Even after the laws were changed, things like hiring practices for example hired far more whites into executive positions than minorities (similar for men vs women). Things are certainly better now than they were when laws banning minorities for living in certain places existed, but improvement isn't the same as fixed.

 

3 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 

 The minority families that I know well and are doing good financially now who came from inner city KCK don’t actually exist I guess.  My new Vietnamese neighbor who came from nothing doesn’t actually exist.  My old Indian neighbor who’s family is dirt poor in India doesn’t exist. 

The old "I have a black friend" response. You are citing anecdotes against studies that are about entire communities. It's laughable if it weren't so sad.