The Democrat Utopia

[Lorewarn]

34 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

 

 

If you think I've said otherwise please let me know where. I've spent all this time doing nothing other than trying to establish agreement on one specific claim based on a poll question that had nothing to do with trimester specificity. 

[DevoHusker]

17 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

If you think I've said otherwise please let me know where. I've spent all this time doing nothing other than trying to establish agreement on one specific claim based on a poll question that had nothing to do with trimester specificity. 

If you say so...

 

You've spent 2 days stating that a majority believes abortion is acceptable in all or most situations...period. That clearly is not true when adding the specificity of the poll. 

 

Your assertion is only true for the 1st 13 weeks. After that, it is the minority view...which is the point I have shown, clearly. 

 

Thanks for acknowledging.

[Lorewarn]

26 minutes ago, DevoHusker said:

If you say so...

 

You've spent 2 days stating that a majority believes abortion is acceptable in all or most situations...period. That clearly is not true when adding the specificity of the poll. 

 

Your assertion is only true for the 1st 13 weeks. After that, it is the minority view...which is the point I have shown, clearly. 

 

Thanks for acknowledging.

 

 

 

That's an inconsistency to take up with the people who answered the survey questions, not with me. Again, I'm not interpreting what the surveys mean in any way, just sharing what their results are. The 56% of people who think it should be legal in most/all cases, and the 44% of people who think it should be illegal in most/all cases, are the exact same people who's percentages change to 34% support and 19% support in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters respectively. It's very easy to understand less people supporting late term abortions in general, but that doesn't account for the percentage discrepancies compared to the 'in general' survey question. Just goes to show you how the phrasing and interpretation of a question matters greatly in defining what the answers are or mean (something archy seems to completely not understand as he constantly rephrases things and changes their meaning in doing so).

 

Moving on!

 

 

[DevoHusker]

8 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Moving on!

 

 

Ok

[Archy1221]

10 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

 

That's an inconsistency to take up with the people who answered the survey questions, not with me. Again, I'm not interpreting what the surveys mean in any way, just sharing what their results are. The 56% of people who think it should be legal in most/all cases, and the 44% of people who think it should be illegal in most/all cases, are the exact same people who's percentages change to 34% support and 19% support in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters respectively. It's very easy to understand less people supporting late term abortions in general, but that doesn't account for the percentage discrepancies compared to the 'in general' survey question. Just goes to show you how the phrasing and interpretation of a question matters greatly in defining what the answers are or mean (something archy seems to completely not understand as he constantly rephrases things and changes their meaning in doing so).

 

Moving on!

 

 

It’s ok to just admit you had worthless data and couldn’t move past it once called out on it.  No need to disparage others.  

[commando]

35 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

It’s ok to just admit you had worthless data and couldn’t move past it once called out on it.  No need to disparage others.  

i saw it as them looking at the same data and arguing about what it means.  1 saying most approve  early abortions and the other saying most disapprove of late term abortions and neither could meet in the middle.   

[Archy1221]

3 minutes ago, commando said:

i saw it as them looking at the same data and arguing about what it means.  1 saying most approve  early abortions and the other saying most disapprove of late term abortions and neither could meet in the middle.   

No, actually one was saying 59% support all or most abortions.  He didn’t put the “early” qualifier in his statement.  The other was saying the data doesn’t bear that out, have data to support his position and he was correct in saying that.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

"Supporting abortion" is always a loaded term,  And this is a complex issue at every trimester. 

 

The only numbers that really matter right now are that 58% of Americans want to uphold Roe v Wade and 32% want to overturn it. That's the bottom line. 

 

These numbers have been fairly consistent since the law was passed. 

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/350804/americans-opposed-overturning-roe-wade.aspx

[funhusker]

This past Spring, my wife had an “abortion”.

 

 

We’ve been trying desperately to have another child.  We were finally pregnant and expecting another child.  My wife went in for her routine ultrasound to find out the fetus was dead.  
 

We had an option: let the miscarriage happen “naturally” over the course of weeks, or “abort” the pregnancy and start the process again.

 

Our clocks are ticking.

 

Do with this what you want.  I know where I stand.  You do you.

[Lorewarn]

5 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

No, actually one was saying 59% support all or most abortions.  He didn’t put the “early” qualifier in his statement.  The other was saying the data doesn’t bear that out, have data to support his position and he was correct in saying that.  

 

 

I didn't put the "early" qualifier in my statement because two separate surveys didn't put an early qualifier in their question about positions on abortion in general.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can somebody let Pew Research and AP-Norc know that they asked their questions wrong?

 

By the way, you still haven't figured out that "all or most abortions" and "in all or most cases" mean different things 

[DevoHusker]

2 hours ago, funhusker said:

This past Spring, my wife had an “abortion”.

 

 

We’ve been trying desperately to have another child.  We were finally pregnant and expecting another child.  My wife went in for her routine ultrasound to find out the fetus was dead.  
 

We had an option: let the miscarriage happen “naturally” over the course of weeks, or “abort” the pregnancy and start the process again.

 

Our clocks are ticking.

 

Do with this what you want.  I know where I stand.  You do you.

Sorry you had to go through that.

 

I think Abortion/Roe v Wade is to Ds what 2A is to Rs.

 

I think they can both use some common sense changes.

[funhusker]

1 hour ago, DevoHusker said:

Sorry you had to go through that.

 

I think Abortion/Roe v Wade is to Ds what 2A is to Rs.

 

I think they can both use some common sense changes.

100% agree.

[Guy Chamberlin]

On 9/3/2021 at 12:00 PM, BigRedBuster said:

I struggle with this conversation.  I'm anti abortion in that I hate that it's a thing.  I can't imagine how horrible I would feel if a woman I was involved with went out and got an abortion.  I don't ever want my daughters in a situation where they are considering it.

 

However, last might my wife said something about the Texas issue and how she's so against abortion.  It got me really thinking about it and it reinforced the direction my thoughts have been going for a while now.  

 

I'm anti abortion.  This is partly due to my religious back ground.  But, even more based on my beliefs on life in general.  But....what the government and the SCOTUS need to consider is legally how the government should be involved.  And, I really can't say that the constitution gives the government the right to say they can't be done.  Where it gets dicey in my head is with things like late term abortions..etc.  I can't fathom supporting that.  

 

What I have come to believe is that if all of these anti abortion groups and politicians would put this much effort into doing what's needed to prevent the NEED for abortions, they would continue to become less and less of a used medical procedure.  The number of abortions in the US has steadily declined since the 70s.  And, that's all while Roe vs. Wade was in full force.  So, why not put that much effort into continuing that?

 

And, it's why I absolutely hate this debate.

 

Planned Parenthood has played a huge role in reducing the number of abortions, but for some reason they get the hate and the picketing 

[Lorewarn]

3 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Planned Parenthood has played a huge role in reducing the number of abortions, but for some reason they get the hate and the picketing 

 

 

Very few things we care about are actually the things we care about. The majority of stuff we focus on is just due to narratives and myths, not due to some consistent detached rational assessment. 'Murdering babies' is an easy and effective narrative; doing unglamorous work of slow, incremental progress and improvement is not a compelling story.

[Archy1221]

Biden missed his electricity target