The Democrat Utopia

[BigRedBuster]

10 hours ago, Redux said:

 

They are choosing not to and being forced to quit/be fired.  Not a choice.  How is it putting others at risk exactly?  It's putting themselves at risk, sure.  Not others, that's a fallacy.  The fully vaccinated and unvaccinated both spread the virus, so no it's not putting others at risk.

 

No employers should be put in that position or be at risk of being fined.  It's a complete infringement on freedom.

 

And that should be your choice free of pressure from the government.  If it's hurting the economy, so is forcing people out of jobs that refuse the vax.

After I said it put others at risk, you said this. 
 

maybe you need to explain more then.  
 

if unvaccinated spread it more, how are they not putting people at risk?

[Redux]

9 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

After I said it put others at risk, you said this. 
 

maybe you need to explain more then.  
 

if unvaccinated spread it more, how are they not putting people at risk?

 

Unvaccinated people are supposedly 11 times more likely to die from Covid.  Mind you, even the unvaccinated still have like a 98% survival rate.  So objectively speaking, the unvaccinated are a greater risk to themselves than they are to others.

 

The Delta variant spreads twice as easily and CAN be twice as severe.  Mind you, that's not a guarantee by any means and is mostly a precautionary tale when talking Covid in general.

 

Here, this is directly from the CDC link I posted where I "owned" myself.  The problem with this data is there are no nunbers here, just advisories.  Just like last year.

 

Quote

• Unvaccinated people remain the greatest concern: The greatest risk of transmission is among unvaccinated people who are much more likely to get infected, and therefore transmit the virus. Fully vaccinated people get COVID-19 (known as breakthrough infections) less often than unvaccinated people. People infected with the Delta variant, including fully vaccinated people with symptomatic breakthrough infections, can transmit the virus to others. CDC is continuing to assess data on whether fully vaccinated people with asymptomatic breakthrough infections can transmit the virus.
• Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.

 

I interpret this differently than others I guess, shocker I know.  Like this line: "However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people."

 

That says may.  Interpret it how you like, but again these are assumptions.  And I'm not sitting here pretending like vaccines don't work, and there are microchips or whatever other nonsense misinformation is out there.  I'm saying that most of this is still assumption based.

 

Bottom line, fully vaxxed and unvaxxed can get covid.  Both can spread covid.  Both CAN die from covid.  And arguing otherwise isn't logical.  The logical thing to do, is IF you are worried about getting it, continue doing what is guaranteed to work: stay the eff away from people.

 

You've got to understand why people are so hesitant to get these vaccines.  Like it or not, this thing was rushed.  Argue all you want, but compared to other vaccines, this was record time.  Maybe that's breakthrough science, or maybe it's big pharma doing what big pharma does best by capitalizing on others misfortune.  And when the government and big pharma team up, it's terrifying. 

 

Here's another link where the risks conflate eachother, this from late July I believe:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-in/health/medical/vaccinated-people-might-spread-covid-19-at-the-same-rate-as-unvaccinated-says-leaked-us-data/ar-AAMKrOf

Quote

Another startling piece of information is that vaccinated people may carry as much load as unvaccinated people. This means that full-vaccinated people may very well be spreading the virus as much as unvaccinated people and, hence, are as likely to be spreaders.

 

Again, this another assumption based outlook.  I'm just tired of living in fear of something that is objectively very survivable for most people.  The flu could kill me, so could a car crash, so could a terrorist attack.  Living in constant fear and blindly giving up freedoms is what is turning the skeptics away.  I'll tell you now, if the government wasn't pushing as hard for vaccinations, more people would be vaccinated.  If you actually give people a choice without fear of job loss or mandating it and threatening fines, more people would seek it out.  A lot of people in this country still do hold the idea of individual freedoms VERY important, nobody wants to be made to feel like it's being stripped away.

[Archy1221]

41 minutes ago, Redux said:

Maybe that's breakthrough science, or maybe it's big pharma doing what big pharma does best by capitalizing on others misfortune. 

This is a horses#!t statement.   “Big Pharma” has saved more lives than anything person/entity in the history of mankind.  Try looking up the healthcare expenditures by sector and see who gets the bulk of the healthcare dollars.  Yet “Big Pharma” keeps more people alive than the people/entities that get the vast vast vast majority of healthcare dollars. 

[Redux]

11 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

This is a horses#!t statement.   “Big Pharma” has saved more lives than anything person/entity in the history of mankind.  Try looking up the healthcare expenditures by sector and see who gets the bulk of the healthcare dollars.  Yet “Big Pharma” keeps more people alive than the people/entities that get the vast vast vast majority of healthcare dollars. 

 

Yeah....and that's why insulin and chemotherapy are so affordable 

 

Ironically a lot of that money goes into the pockets of government elected officials spouses.  Weird

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, Redux said:

 

Yeah....and that's why insulin and chemotherapy are so affordable 

 

Ironically a lot of that money goes into the pockets of government elected officials spouses.  Weird

Like who?  And what’s a lot of money constitute? 

[Ulty]

56 minutes ago, Redux said:

  Mind you, even the unvaccinated still have like a 98% survival rate. 

Can we please stop with this BS? Certain segments of the population have been crowing about a 98% survival rate for the past year and a half. While factually accurate, this minimizes the fact that a 1 or 2% mortality rate is absolutely horrific. 

 

57 minutes ago, Redux said:

The flu could kill me, so could a car crash, so could a terrorist attack. 

What if I told you that car crashes had a 98% survival rate? Are you opposed to seatbelt laws? Or DUI laws?

[Redux]

28 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Like who?  And what’s a lot of money constitute? 

 

Google:  Who paid the largest criminal fine in history, and why?

 

Why is lobbying more important than making life saving drugs and medicine affordable?  $4,450,373,773 over 20 years to be exact.

 

The FDA is fudned by companies it regulates.  How does that make any sense, kinda like the NCAA regulating sports it makes money off of.

 

As of May, Big Pharma has made $22 Billion off of Covid19 relief

 

There's this guy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli

 

To be continued, maybe a thread move is needed 

[Redux]

25 minutes ago, Ulty said:

Can we please stop with this BS? Certain segments of the population have been crowing about a 98% survival rate for the past year and a half. While factually accurate, this minimizes the fact that a 1 or 2% mortality rate is absolutely horrific. 

 

What if I told you that car crashes had a 98% survival rate? Are you opposed to seatbelt laws? Or DUI laws?

 

You call it bulls#!t, and then concede that it's a fact.  I accept your concession.  All death rates are horrific.

 

Seatbelts don't go inside my body.  I don't get fired if I get a seatbelt ticket.  DUI laws don't go inside my body.

[commando]

16 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

You call it bulls#!t, and then concede that it's a fact.  I accept your concession.  All death rates are horrific.

 

Seatbelts don't go inside my body.  I don't get fired if I get a seatbelt ticket.  DUI laws don't go inside my body.

seat belts protect you...vaccines protect society

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, commando said:

vaccines protect society

 

Wait, now I have to care about the safety of OTHERS?!?!?!  COME ON!!!!!

[Archy1221]

18 minutes ago, Redux said:

The FDA is fudned by companies it regulates.  How does that make any sense, kinda like the NCAA regulating sports it makes money off of.

That kinda how things work.  In other industries too!  I Companies pay to fund the bodies that regulate them.  
 

20 minutes ago, Redux said:

Why is lobbying more important than making life saving drugs and medicine affordable?

It’s not, but why should Pharma not be able to get its voice heard?  maybe you should look up how much product is given away for free or subsidized?  
 

I think there is probably something that could be done to limit the yearly price increases.  But where is your vitriol for Hospitals?  For Doctors? For CMS who develops the rates?  
 

24 minutes ago, Redux said:

There's this guy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli

That guy is a piece of s#!t investor who bought a small Pharma company.  Don’t even try making him the face of the drug industry.  It makes you look completely foolish. 
 

 

 

[Redux]

2 minutes ago, commando said:

seat belts protect you...vaccines protect society

 

Vaccines are supposed to protect the person first actually.  Seat belts protect others secondly.

[Archy1221]

58 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Ironically a lot of that money goes into the pockets of government elected officials spouses.  Weird

Who? And what constitutes a lot of money?

[Redux]

1 minute ago, Archy1221 said:

That kinda how things work.  In other industries too!  I Companies pay to fund the bodies that regulate them.  
 

It’s not, but why should Pharma not be able to get its voice heard?  maybe you should look up how much product is given away for free or subsidized?  
 

I think there is probably something that could be done to limit the yearly price increases.  But where is your vitriol for Hospitals?  For Doctors? For CMS who develops the rates?  
 

That guy is a piece of s#!t investor who bought a small Pharma company.  Don’t even try making him the face of the drug industry.  It makes you look completely foolish. 

 

It is how thing's work.  And it's wrong.

 

Nothing is free, someone always gets paid.

 

Hospitals markup kleenex, bad example.  Doctors are individuals, gotta find a good one.

 

He's a great example actually and that's why I used it.  Denying it is foolish.

[Archy1221]

28 minutes ago, Redux said:

t is how thing's work.  And it's wrong.

What makes it wrong.  Examples of misdoings that haven’t been dealt with please. 
 

30 minutes ago, Redux said:

He's a great example actually and that's why I used it.  Denying it is foolish.

He’s a stupid example which is why you used it and he’s in jail.