The Democrat Utopia

[RedDenver]

5 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

I guess we all pick where we draw the line in the sand. I don’t have a problem with primary education. That seems to me to be something society should kick in for (and my kids are done with schooling). But a college education is different IMO. Part of my position is probably because I don’t feel it is necessary. It is something people choose to do to improve their life. Great, let them choose it and pay for their own choices. I really don’t see where that is any different than a person who chooses to improve their life by racking up credit card debt. Therefore I don’t see where either one should be my responsibility to pay for it.

 

I do think the cost of a college education is ridiculous and I am not opposed to helping make it less costly. But loan forgiveness after the fact is pretty much a non-starter for me. If they want to reimburse/forgive a limited, reasonable amount after the fact, fine, send me my share. I just don’t see where it’s fair that the people who managed on their own should now be stuck with the bill for others. A good place to start would be defeating this notion that a college education is vital for everyone. It isn’t and shouldn’t be.

What would you think is "a limited, reasonable amount after the fact"?

[Lorewarn]

17 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

I just don’t see where it’s fair that the people who managed on their own should now be stuck with the bill for others. 

 

 

This is absurd. First of all, it's not like you personally are getting an expensive bill for someone else's loans. It's also not like you would have more money if the gov doesn't forgive any loans, all of that is going to be taxed either way. But another thing is that everyone would chip in an insignificant amount, including the loan borrowers. They would be just as "stuck with the bill" as you are for a government forgiveness program as they are also citizens with taxes. 

 

We'll eventually cripple our economy if we keep having a "oh sucks to be you stupid!" attitude towards tens of millions of folks who aren't free to start businesses, take risks, generate capital etc. because of the debt they were encouraged to take on as a child. It's not just good for them, it's good for you too. 

[JJ Husker]

29 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

This is absurd. First of all, it's not like you personally are getting an expensive bill for someone else's loans. It's also not like you would have more money if the gov doesn't forgive any loans, all of that is going to be taxed either way. But another thing is that everyone would chip in an insignificant amount, including the loan borrowers. They would be just as "stuck with the bill" as you are for a government forgiveness program as they are also citizens with taxes. 

 

We'll eventually cripple our economy if we keep having a "oh sucks to be you stupid!" attitude towards tens of millions of folks who aren't free to start businesses, take risks, generate capital etc. because of the debt they were encouraged to take on as a child. It's not just good for them, it's good for you too. 

I disagree and don’t view it this way at all 

 

I think the bigger issue to solve first would be revamping the tax code to get the ultra rich paying in a lot more than they currently do. Once we determine how much money there is to work with for everything then we can start determining which items are worthiest. Pretty sure I would still feel any items that benefits only a specific group choosing that course should be paid for by that group.

[JJ Husker]

33 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

What would you think is "a limited, reasonable amount after the fact"?

I don’t have a good answer. I would have to see something proposed. For arguments sake, maybe an amount that is based on a low cost education that would be commonly available to anyone.

[teachercd]

I am all for free college...

 

With that said, those of you that are super upset about it, just feel free to post an ad that you want to pay for someones college.  You will feel better, like Michael Scott from The Office. 

[BigRedBuster]

5 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

Funny enough you mention credit cards, as I had two credit cards from my younger years that I irresponsibly got/used and went out of control. 

 

Ended up settling for WAY less than I owed on both of them. Way, way less. Crazy idea. 

And, why should you be able to do that?  Was it paid for by tax payers?

[BigRedBuster]

4 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

This is absurd. First of all, it's not like you personally are getting an expensive bill for someone else's loans. It's also not like you would have more money if the gov doesn't forgive any loans, all of that is going to be taxed either way. But another thing is that everyone would chip in an insignificant amount, including the loan borrowers. They would be just as "stuck with the bill" as you are for a government forgiveness program as they are also citizens with taxes. 

 

We'll eventually cripple our economy if we keep having a "oh sucks to be you stupid!" attitude towards tens of millions of folks who aren't free to start businesses, take risks, generate capital etc. because of the debt they were encouraged to take on as a child. It's not just good for them, it's good for you too. 

Not if people don’t run up huge debt going to college and actually work their way through paying for the majority of it at the time. 

[BigRedBuster]

7 hours ago, RedDenver said:

BRB, you're usually a level-headed poster, but none of these examples are at all similar to paying to educate our populace:

Why?  What if I go buy a 500,000 house and can’t afford the payments?  Why is that different than going to school for 4 years, not getting a job to help pay and not figuring out how to live cheap…..then expecting it all forgiven and someone else pay for it?

[B.B. Hemingway]

6 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

A good place to start would be defeating this notion that a college education is vital for everyone. It isn’t and shouldn’t be.

 

This. Learn a trade. Start a business.

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

Why?  What if I go buy a 500,000 house and can’t afford the payments?  Why is that different than going to school for 4 years, not getting a job to help pay and not figuring out how to live cheap…..then expecting it all forgiven and someone else pay for it?

 

Agreed.

 

 ALL POOR FINANCIAL DECISIONS MATTER!

[teachercd]

I have found out that when posters don't respond to posts it is because they know they are listening to reason.  

 

 

[teachercd]

1 hour ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

This. Learn a trade. Start a business.

I would even say that an alternative could/should be tot make trade school free (or at least like the first 75% of it free) and let kids start while they are in HS.

 

Facts...plumbers, welders, electricians, carperetneres, machinists, mechanics...they are not going away...

[B.B. Hemingway]

Just now, teachercd said:

I would even say that an alternative could/should be tot make trade school free (or at least like the first 75% of it free) and let kids start while they are in HS.

 

Facts...plumbers, welders, electricians, carperetneres, machinists, mechanics...they are not going away...

 

There is a VoTech program in my area that allows kids to get a jump start in those careers. I don't know why those kinds of careers aren't pushed. Excellent money in almost all of those fields.

 

[teachercd]

31 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

There is a VoTech program in my area that allows kids to get a jump start in those careers. I don't know why those kinds of careers aren't pushed. Excellent money in almost all of those fields.

 

The "side money" alone is enough to buy a rental property at the age of 25.

[admo]

8 hours ago, Lorewarn said:

 

 

This is absurd. First of all, it's not like you personally are getting an expensive bill for someone else's loans. It's also not like you would have more money if the gov doesn't forgive any loans, all of that is going to be taxed either way. But another thing is that everyone would chip in an insignificant amount, including the loan borrowers. They would be just as "stuck with the bill" as you are for a government forgiveness program as they are also citizens with taxes. 

 

We'll eventually cripple our economy if we keep having a "oh sucks to be you stupid!" attitude towards tens of millions of folks who aren't free to start businesses, take risks, generate capital etc. because of the debt they were encouraged to take on as a child. It's not just good for them, it's good for you too. 

 

THIS IS BULLs#!t