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QB Run Game: the Myth of the Frost Offense


Cdog923

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On December 12, 2017 at 9:46 PM, RedDenver said:

Or Frost thinks his scheme is flexible enough for a range of talents at QB.

 

I don't pretend to know what Frost thinks. We do know, with two highly rated young QBs already on the team, the very first recruit called was a QB.

 

 

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I've noticed quite a bit in discussions on both what the offense next year will look like and in recruiting that it's a certainty that Frost needs a "run-first" QB to make his offense work at a high l

Cool post and great research!   I would like to add a few things   1.  Most HS QB's are pretty much the best athletes at the high school (or like in the top 10) so don't look so mu

Joe Ganz would be amazing in Frost's offense.

1 hour ago, brophog said:

 

I don't pretend to know what Frost thinks. We do know, with two highly rated young QBs already on the team, the very first recruit called was a QB.

 

 

Yep...I think that goes to show what Frost thinks about the current QB's.  Not that they are bad but that he can get better.

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2 hours ago, brophog said:

 

I don't pretend to know what Frost thinks. We do know, with two highly rated young QBs already on the team, the very first recruit called was a QB.

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Yep...I think that goes to show what Frost thinks about the current QB's.  Not that they are bad but that he can get better.

 

In another light, it could be that he thinks there aren't enough highly rated QBs on the team. 

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16 minutes ago, Cdog923 said:

 

 

In another light, it could be that he thinks there aren't enough highly rated QBs on the team. 

For sure...you always want more and better players.  No doubt about it.

 

Now, if you are TG or POB you look at what A-Mart can do and you either think...

 

1.  Hmmm, I can do all that

2.  Hmmm, I can't really do all that

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3 hours ago, brophog said:

 

I don't pretend to know what Frost thinks. We do know, with two highly rated young QBs already on the team, the very first recruit called was a QB.

Good point. Frost also might not know what he has, so getting a QB that fits his system was paramount.

 

EDIT: And even if we have QB to run his system, Martinez would still be an excellent pick up.

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14 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Good point. Frost also might not know what he has, so getting a QB that fits his system was paramount.

 

EDIT: And even if we have QB to run his system, Martinez would still be an excellent pick up.

There is nothing wrong with having depth and competition at all the roster spots.  There may be a Gebbia or POB that wins the #1 QB job for the first game of 2018, but he may not finish the season as the starter, and may not win the job again in 2019.

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Just now, boach_clack said:

I think POB/Gebbia with the addition of Adrian Martinez is a nice cupboard of QB's for what this staff is trying to do. 

Tanner Lee is on the outside looking in for sure. Id be surprised if he is here for the Spring. 

The only problem for Lee is that he doesn't graduate until Spring, so he can't be a graduate transfer until after the semester.  So, it's either declare for the NFL (which I think he will do) or go ahead and go through spring semester and drills with NU.

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The real threat that a mobile qb poses isn't in running downfield but in moving outside the pocket behind the line of scrimmage.  The option is just an extension of that threat as it forces defenders to cover space instead of players.  Forcing linebackers to move laterally as much as vertically is what makes the spread so dangerous and it removes the interior defensive linemens ability to be disruptive. To that end, both Gebbia and POB are capable of being dangerous qbs in the spread, and with a guy like Gebbia who has excellent field  vision you have a qb who can roll out and give his receivers time to get off defenders.  Timing passes are almost obsolete in this offense so the bump and run is pretty much useless.  The only danger is coming up against an extremely aggressive defense that blitzes more often than not but that is why having a powerful running back is also a necessity.  

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On 12/12/2017 at 10:07 AM, BIG ERN said:

Great post. I think on some of these we have to dig a little deeper as well. UCF improved this year by the threat of Milton's run game. 

 

2016: 100 attempts, 1.6 ypc, 3 TD

2017: 93 attempts, 5.3 ypc, 7 TD

 

Mariota avg 6.6 ypc and 10 rushing TD/season in his 3 years at Oregon. I agree we don't need a burner at QB, but they have to be efficient at running the ball as well. There are many QB's who could not avg over 5 ypc that some think could work in this offense. Ganz and Armstrong never avg. 5 ypc. I think that's the tipping point of success for this offense. 

The critical stat that one must consider when determining IF a given QB can run a spread 'option' or some more traditional kind of option successfully is his yards per carry and not his carries per game.   Payton Manning is NOT close to the kind of player who could be used to run a elite level spread option attack.   He can barely run, period, let alone run a 100 yards a game.   Not to say he couldn't have gained a hundred a couple games a season in high school against the poorest opponents on their schedule, but a QB that is truly a decent dual threat QB (something less than what NU needs in my view) has to run a lot better than Payton Manning or Lee or Obrien from what little we've seen from them).   Both run rings around Manning but are not dual threat QBs capable of striking fear in the hearts of the Wisconsin defensive coaches/players.  In fact, I'd say they would probably scheme intentionally to make Lee or Obrien run the ball and love their chances to hold them to a 1.5 yards per carry average, if not a negative one.  

 

Your QB, if you are running a serious 'option' type of scheme, has to be able to carry the ball effectively and be a real threat to hurt the defense.   One key is his quickness and ability to avoid sack losses in addition to his ability to advance the ball on designed run type plays.  

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...the QB run play may not be dialed up very much, However having a athlete back there is and can be the game breaker..how 3rd and 3s did Riley and LEE and rest of offense screw up...? I lost count..I cringed when the running lane is right there for the QB (Lee) to tuck it and go get 1st down..however that wast Mike Reilly MO..He preferred to dial up a 3 yard pass when 4 yards is needed..that drove me crazy..

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9 hours ago, Depressed Husker said:

...the QB run play may not be dialed up very much, However having a athlete back there is and can be the game breaker..how 3rd and 3s did Riley and LEE and rest of offense screw up...? I lost count..I cringed when the running lane is right there for the QB (Lee) to tuck it and go get 1st down..however that wast Mike Reilly MO..He preferred to dial up a 3 yard pass when 4 yards is needed..that drove me crazy..

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.  The discussion is, do you need an absolute stud runner like Eric Crouch or TMart back there to do that, or can someone like POB or Gebbia do that sufficient enough to be successful in this offense if their passing is accurate and efficient?

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It seems clear that Frost might like what is currently here but he also knows he can/has gotten better.  

 

I think Frost knows that they will be getting a lot of easy reads in the passing game and that it makes more sense to have a guy that can run to keep the defense in easy to read packages.  

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When I watch plays like this:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/A-KdhOf8YAsycRIE1qmaT7x14QE=/0x0:962x484/720x0/filters:focal(0x0:962x484):gifv():no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9877997/Frost_option_craziness.gif

it seems fairly clear that "quickness" is a must. Honestly Frost could have potentially gotten just as many total yards with more designed keepers for Milton but it just isn't the objective. What I like about this approach is that your QB doesn't have to be as durable and doesn't get hit as much. We love our QBs to smash people in the mouth here but that really isn't the Frost offense.

In my mind I kind of see Adrian Martinez having a really good chance of getting the nod as a true freshman. 

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