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Recruiting Tangent Thread - StPaulHusker Edition

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2 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Did Frost also offer the other QBs we are currently after at UCF?  Otherwise, he may still be interested but now have others in which he is interested more.

According to 247, only Michael Johnson out of Oregon

 

But I also wanted to be fair to both coaches.  I think Riley only offered 2 QB's before getting fired.  He put everything into Grant Gunnell.  And when that didn't happen he offered Duggan.  Which I believe I expressed my disappointment about Riley being late to the game there, too.

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13 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

OK????  So????:dunno

Am I not allowed to post my own opinion about anything on this message board?  Or do i need to run it by you first to make sure it meets a criteria you deem worthy?

 

If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read it.  

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24 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Am I not allowed to post my own opinion about anything on this message board?  Or do i need to run it by you first to make sure it meets a criteria you deem worthy?

 

If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read it.  

You came on here accusing fans of being hypocrites.  

 

You don't expect that to be challenged?

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2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

You came on here accusing fans of being hypocrites.  

 

You don't expect that to be challenged?

Sure I expect to be challenged if I say something you disagree with.  Problem is you're not saying anything worthy of furthering the discussion.  Your response to my opinion at the top of the page shows that.

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17 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Sure I expect to be challenged if I say something you disagree with.  Problem is you're not saying anything worthy of furthering the discussion.  Your response to my opinion at the top of the page shows that.

 

Well, then it's fairly disingenuous to then act like you're not being treated fairly.

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Just now, BigRedBuster said:

 

Well, then it's fairly disingenuous to then act like you're not being treated fairly.

Did I say that somewhere?

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3 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Did I say that somewhere?

 

54 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Am I not allowed to post my own opinion about anything on this message board?  Or do i need to run it by you first to make sure it meets a criteria you deem worthy?

Quote

Do you ever post anything worthy of conversation or do you just follow me around to try and be combative?  Because if you want to go down this road, I'm game.

 

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Just now, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

Neither of those statements refer to me being treated unfairly.  Just that I'd rather not engage in combative posts that don't have anything to do with the topic.

 

But keep fishing.  Maybe you'll find something.

 

Or don't because you're making it personal.  And that isn't wise.

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4 minutes ago, Chadhusker said:

He has talent . 

So do the 46 OT's this staff has offered that are rated above him

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19 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

So now we are sugar coating offers to unrated OT's?  Not good.

Haha definitely not good as of yet. But I trust this type of offer more than I would on the defensive side of the ball. OLine is the one spot on the roster that I don’t blame them for getting creative in who they offer and how they find them. They know what it’s supposed to look like and if they are striking out with their top targets, sometimes stealing an under the radar guy is the way to go. There are a number of G5 OLines that push around bigger schools every year because they find late bloomers or guys who were missed.

 

We will quickly find out if Frost perhaps shouldn’t have kept all of his previous coaching staff. I admit that so far, Austin has left me a little underwhelmed but I don’t think he will be here long if he’s not cut out for it.

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1 minute ago, Caliborn72 said:

Haha definitely not good as of yet. But I trust this type of offer more than I would on the defensive side of the ball. OLine is the one spot on the roster that I don’t blame them for getting creative in who they offer and how they find them. They know what it’s supposed to look like and if they are striking out with their top targets, sometimes stealing an under the radar guy is the way to go. There are a number of G5 OLines that push around bigger schools every year because they find late bloomers or guys who were missed.

 

We will quickly find out if Frost perhaps shouldn’t have kept all of his previous coaching staff. I admit that so far, Austin has left me a little underwhelmed but I don’t think he will be here long if he’s not cut out for it.

I don't think they are getting creative.  They are getting desperate.  This is the 47th known offer to an OT.  And last years lone OT might not academically qualify.  They are in trouble in this position and people just keep thinking that everyone the staff offers is underrated, or has great film, or great potential.  It's ridiculous.  There just might be a reason why a kid isn't rated or has a lot of offers.  It might be because they just aren't good enough.  

 

Is this that type of deal?  I don't know.  But people need to start getting realistic with the recruiting this staff is doing so far.

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8 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

I don't think they are getting creative.  They are getting desperate.  This is the 47th known offer to an OT.  And last years lone OT might not academically qualify.  They are in trouble in this position and people just keep thinking that everyone the staff offers is underrated, or has great film, or great potential.  It's ridiculous.  There just might be a reason why a kid isn't rated or has a lot of offers.  It might be because they just aren't good enough.  

 

Is this that type of deal?  I don't know.  But people need to start getting realistic with the recruiting this staff is doing so far.

That may be true to an extent but the staff still vets every prospect they offer. There is somethimg about this kid they think they can work with or they wouldn't offer. I don't care if Austin has been striking out on the recruiting trail at this point. We need player development along the OLine. Wisconsin grabs QBs and turns them into AAs on the Oline. We don't want to be Wisconsin, but I'll take their Oline with the skill guys Frost can attract. Get the right bodies and coach them up. 

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20 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

But people need to start getting realistic with the recruiting this staff is doing so far.

Realistic and recruiting don't go together. Are you new here?

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22 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

I don't think they are getting creative.  They are getting desperate.  This is the 47th known offer to an OT.  And last years lone OT might not academically qualify.  They are in trouble in this position and people just keep thinking that everyone the staff offers is underrated, or has great film, or great potential.  It's ridiculous.  There just might be a reason why a kid isn't rated or has a lot of offers.  It might be because they just aren't good enough.  

 

Is this that type of deal?  I don't know.  But people need to start getting realistic with the recruiting this staff is doing so far.

Fair but I think O-line can be greatly fixed with proper coaching and getting the right kid.

 

Biggest issue with last staff was inability to take un-tapped potential and turn it in to something. I am ok with a few unknowns who get in the weight room and are taught the right technique.

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23 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

I don't think they are getting creative.  They are getting desperate.  This is the 47th known offer to an OT.  And last years lone OT might not academically qualify.  They are in trouble in this position and people just keep thinking that everyone the staff offers is underrated, or has great film, or great potential.  It's ridiculous.  There just might be a reason why a kid isn't rated or has a lot of offers.  It might be because they just aren't good enough.  

 

Is this that type of deal?  I don't know.  But people need to start getting realistic with the recruiting this staff is doing so far.

 

Let me see if I know how this works....

 

Do you absolutely know for sure that they are getting desperate?  Have you talked to the staff to know that's what's happening?

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3 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

That may be true to an extent but the staff still vets every prospect they offer. There is somethimg about this kid they think they can work with or they wouldn't offer. I don't care if Austin has been striking out on the recruiting trail at this point. We need player development along the OLine. Wisconsin grabs QBs and turns them into AAs on the Oline. We don't want to be Wisconsin, but I'll take their Oline with the skill guys Frost can attract. Get the right bodies and coach them up. 

Wisconsin is not lining up a bunch of walk ons on their OL.  This is such a fallacy.  From 2013 to the 2019 current cycle, Wisconsin has received commitments from:

 

(1)5 star 

(2) 4 star rated 94

(4) 3 star rated 88-89

(3) 3 star rated 86-87

(2) 3 star rated below 86

(2) 2 star

 

That's 14 OT's over the last 6+ cycles.  

 

 


 

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19 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

I don't think they are getting creative.  They are getting desperate.  This is the 47th known offer to an OT.  And last years lone OT might not academically qualify.  They are in trouble in this position and people just keep thinking that everyone the staff offers is underrated, or has great film, or great potential.  It's ridiculous.  There just might be a reason why a kid isn't rated or has a lot of offers.  It might be because they just aren't good enough.  

 

Is this that type of deal?  I don't know.  But people need to start getting realistic with the recruiting this staff is doing so far.

Seems a bit harsh but I don’t wholly disagree. I’ve expressed some confusion and frustration in the general recruiting threads.

 

I just can’t imagine our staff would be that desperate in May. It’s also just an offer at this point, I’m sure our staff is still evaluating him. If teams like Ole Miss, Arizona, Louisville, start offering and he quickly becomes a mid to high 3-star, then this offer doesn’t look so questionable.

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3 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Let me see if I know how this works....

 

Do you absolutely know for sure that they are getting desperate?  Have you talked to the staff to know that's what's happening?

Do we know for sure that every unrated player that has been offered is going to be a great get for the team?  No?  Then why don't you call out posters for saying so?

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8 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

Let me see if I know how this works....

 

Do you absolutely know for sure that they are getting desperate?  Have you talked to the staff to know that's what's happening?

+1,000

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2 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Do we know for sure that every unrated player that has been offered is going to be a great get for the team?  No?  Then why don't you call out posters for saying so?

Apples/Oranges. 

 

We cant know if a player will be great or not, but we can know if the staff is desperate and throwing offers to anyone with a pulse or if these offers are to players they have scouted and they really like.

 

I get what you are saying that plenty of posters look at everything through husker red glasses but just because this guy doesnt have a lot of offers doesnt mean the staff didnt do there homework or is desperate.

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4 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Do we know for sure that every unrated player that has been offered is going to be a great get for the team?  No?  Then why don't you call out posters for saying so?

 

Why do you call out posters for not having 100% verified information but have no problem throwing out the same yourself?

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Just now, Mavric said:

 

Why do you call out posters for not having 100% verified information but have no problem throwing out the same yourself?

Would you feel better if I said, "in my opinion, it looks like desperation"?

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2 minutes ago, Minnesota_husker said:

Apples/Oranges. 

 

We cant know if a player will be great or not, but we can know if the staff is desperate and throwing offers to anyone with a pulse or if these offers are to players they have scouted and they really like.

 

I get what you are saying that plenty of posters look at everything through husker red glasses but just because this guy doesnt have a lot of offers doesnt mean the staff didnt do there homework or is desperate.

They have offered 47 scholarships to players listed as OT's for 2019.  I feel when you get to the 40's and the offer is to unrated players, it's getting a little desperate.  Feel free to disagree.

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3 minutes ago, Minnesota_husker said:

We cant know if a player will be great or not, but we can know if the staff is desperate and throwing offers to anyone with a pulse or if these offers are to players they have scouted and they really like.

 

No, you can't actually know that.

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Just now, Mavric said:

 

No, you can't actually know that.

Make sure you start calling out posters that gush over every offer that it's a great offer and the kid has a ton of talent, etc that they don't actually know that

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2 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Would you feel better if I said, "in my opinion, it looks like desperation"?

 

I don't know.  You seem to be the self-appointed police for what people can say and how they can say it. 

 

Can people have a general understanding that basically everything on a message board is either third-hand information or an option without explicitly stating such or do we have to be exactly precise in how we say everything?

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35 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

I don't think they are getting creative.  They are getting desperate.  This is the 47th known offer to an OT.  And last years lone OT might not academically qualify.  They are in trouble in this position and people just keep thinking that everyone the staff offers is underrated, or has great film, or great potential.  It's ridiculous.  There just might be a reason why a kid isn't rated or has a lot of offers.  It might be because they just aren't good enough.  

 

Is this that type of deal?  I don't know.  But people need to start getting realistic with the recruiting this staff is doing so far.

This could be a worst case scenario back-up plan for all we know.  I also think we're going to have trouble recruiting players at positions like this, even with a new coaching staff, until we start showing we aren't going to just squander their talents.

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Just now, RedSavage said:

This could be a worst case scenario back-up plan for all we know.  I also think we're going to have trouble recruiting players at positions like this, even with a new coaching staff, until we start showing we aren't going to just squander their talents.

But we have the National Coach of the Year and he brought his entire great coaching staff with him to Nebraska and they beat Auburn and went undefeated and with all of this he is going to be able to get whoever he wants.........

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4 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

No, you can't actually know that.

The staff can.

 

My point is that it is knowledge that can be known compared to a player progressing to be a good college players is up in the air.

 

I was actually agreeing with you. I dont think St. Paul knows if they are desperate, but the coaching staff knows there strategy. They wont share it with outsiders but it could be a known piece.

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9 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Wisconsin is not lining up a bunch of walk ons on their OL.  This is such a fallacy.  From 2013 to the 2019 current cycle, Wisconsin has received commitments from:

 

(1)5 star 

(2) 4 star rated 94

(4) 3 star rated 88-89

(3) 3 star rated 86-87

(2) 3 star rated below 86

(2) 2 star

 

That's 14 OT's over the last 6+ cycles.  

 

 


 

5 star is a current commit not on campus, wouldn't count him. They have produced great lines with mostly mid to lower rated 3 star guys. Not that that should be our only formula, but point being hopefully we have a program in place where we can take guys like this and turn them into quality players because our player development is the focus. Not everybody is going to be an all conference player, but I believe our staff is going to target guys they think can contribute to a championship squad.

 

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2 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

I don't know.  You seem to be the self-appointed police for what people can say and how they can say it. 

 

Can people have a general understanding that basically everything on a message board is either third-hand information or an option without explicitly stating such or do we have to be exactly precise in how we say everything?

eyeroll.gif

 

 

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9 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

But we have the National Coach of the Year and he brought his entire great coaching staff with him to Nebraska and they beat Auburn and went undefeated and with all of this he is going to be able to get whoever he wants.........

Why are you trying to throw this in everyone's face, when you made the exact same argument when Frost was first hired? Or do I need to find the post again?

 

My guess is this is a back-up offer. Why do I suggest that, well because (1) it is the 47th or so OT offer not the 1st, (2) there a number of other OT offers made ahead of this one where the prospect has not committed elsewhere and Nebraska is still recruiting, and (3) you don't see Anderson committing on the spot or a flood of CB predictions for Nebraska (so this may not be a committable offer at the moment).

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Just now, Nebfanatic said:

5 star is a current commit not on campus, wouldn't count him. They have produced great lines with mostly mid to lower rated 3 star guys. Not that that should be our only formula, but point being hopefully we have a program in place where we can take guys like this and turn them into quality players because our player development is the focus. Not everybody is going to be an all conference player, but I believe our staff is going to target guys they think can contribute to a championship squad.

 

I literally said COMMITMENT from 2013 to CURRENT 2019 cycle.

 

And I just proved that over the last 6 recruiting cycles they had more upper 3 star compared to lower.

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1 minute ago, Thanks_Tom RR said:

Why are you trying to throw this in everyone's face, when you made the exact same argument when Frost was first hired? Or do I need to find the post again?

 

My guess is this is a back-up offer. Why do I suggest that, well because (1) it is the 47 or so OT offer not the first, (2) there a number of other OT offers made ahead of this one where the prospect has not committed elsewhere and Nebraska is still recruiting, and (3) you don't see Anderson committing on the spot or a flood of CB predictions for Nebraska (so this may not be a committable offer at the moment).

Lol.  "backup" offer.  

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4 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

I literally said COMMITMENT from 2013 to CURRENT 2019 cycle.

 

And I just proved that over the last 6 recruiting cycles they had more upper 3 star compared to lower.

I know what you said but I don't know how '18 and '19 commits have contributed to their already great lines over the years. They will contribute to more in the future, but wisconsin has already put together great lines without those players. Your definition of a upper 3 star is different than mine. I count 4 upper 3 stars and 7 mid to lower 3 star or worse.

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2 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

I know what you said but I don't know how '18 and '19 commits have contributed to their already great lines over the years. They will contribute to more in the future, but wisconsin has already put together great lines without those players. Your definition of a upper 3 star is different than mine. I count 4 upper 3 stars and 7 mid to lower 3 star or worse.

Upper:  86 and above

 

Lower:  85 and below

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1 minute ago, StPaulHusker said:

Lol.  "backup" offer.  

You can't be a prisoner of the moment in recruiting. It is a 2-3 year process (sometimes longer). To get worked up about everyone offer (or lack of offer) will make you act like...ohhh...nevermind. It's like the Max Duggan situation. You can light a fire about it (e.g., "Duggan doesn't want to go to Nebraska" or "Nebraska will not do better if they miss on him"). However, as it is playing out, the staff seemed to cool on Duggan (as did other schools), and now, they are in a good position with a higher rated QB prospect (something some said would be impossible...:thumbs).

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4 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Upper:  86 and above

 

Lower:  85 and below

Cool. My point remains the same. I don't care if we are offering a dancer from Brazil to come play tackle. This staff has shown they can develop players and they are going off some form of evaluation to extend an offer. We need a different approach along the Oline. We've had talent for years, we have it on the roster now, but that hasn't translated to a single memorable line over the past 15 years. We need to develop the guys we bring in.

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9 minutes ago, Thanks_Tom RR said:

You can't be a prisoner of the moment in recruiting. It is a 2-3 year process (sometimes longer). To get worked up about everyone offer (or lack of offer) will make you act like...ohhh...nevermind. It's like the Max Duggan situation. You can light a fire about it (e.g., "Duggan doesn't want to go to Nebraska" or "Nebraska will not do better if they miss on him"). However, as it is playing out, the staff seemed to cool on Duggan (as did other schools), and now, they are in a good position with a higher rated QB prospect (something some said would be impossible...:thumbs).

 

No one said it was going to be impossible for them to be in a better position with a higher rated QB if Duggan went elsewhere.  C'mon

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33 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

eyeroll.gif

 

Is that too hard of a question to answer?  Or you don't want to pin yourself down?

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Well this is not what I expected when I saw this thread had blown up.

 

Good work everyone.

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Just now, Mavric said:

 

Is that too hard of a question to answer?  Or you don't want to pin yourself down?

It barely deserves a response.  But I will oblige.  The thing I asked specifics of is when people say things about a player and say stuff like, "He's our third option at this position." Or "We like him at DT instead of DE."  And then I ask how they know this intimate detail.

 

But, again, you're awfully silent when a poster says things like, "He starts day one" or "He is so underrated."

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31 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

 

No one said it was going to be impossible for them to be in a better position with a higher rated QB if Duggan went elsewhere.  C'mon

Really?! Own your opinions, man. I am not getting paid to research and dig up all of your old posts to prove a point.

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7 minutes ago, Thanks_Tom RR said:

Really?! Own your opinions, man. I am not getting paid to research and dig up all of your old posts to prove a point.

I know I didn't say it was impossible. Nice try, though

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1 minute ago, StPaulHusker said:

I know I didn't say it was impossible. Nice try, though

Whatever, bro. I don't care enough to get into it.

 

I will definitely agree with you about this offer not being a top prospect (as we both pointed out it is offer #47 not #1). This is not a "Day 1 guy" and will need to be developed; whether that means he is underrated or not, it does not really matter. He might have the frame (I am assuming based on his height) but will need to get into the weight room and on a meal plan before seeing playing time (maybe in his RS So year). That is up to the vision of the coaching staff about how they project guys, something many who want more linemen from Nebraska to be recruited have been saying has been lacking from past staff (e.g., Bryson Williams).

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14 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

But, again, you're awfully silent when a poster says things like, "He starts day one" or "He is so underrated."

 

Because I'm not the thought police.  People can have their own opinions and I don't feel the need to always shoot them down even if I disagree with them.

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1 hour ago, StPaulHusker said:

Wisconsin is not lining up a bunch of walk ons on their OL.  This is such a fallacy.  From 2013 to the 2019 current cycle, Wisconsin has received commitments from:

 

(1)5 star 

(2) 4 star rated 94

(4) 3 star rated 88-89

(3) 3 star rated 86-87

(2) 3 star rated below 86

(2) 2 star

 

That's 14 OT's over the last 6+ cycles.  

 

 


 

Thought it would be interesting to look at OL recruitment under Chip Kelly for perspective (as that may be a better comparison to what Frost will emulate). From 2007 to the 2012 recruiting cycle, Oregon received commitments from:

 

(0)5 star 

(6) 4 star rated 90-94

(1) 3 star rated 88-89

(3) 3 star rated 86-87

(5) 3 star rated below 86

(1) 2 star

(3) Unrated

 

That's 19 OL's over 6 cycles.

 

Just for another reference point, Nebraska from 2013 to 2019 received commitments from:

 

(0)5 star 

(3) 4 star rated 90-94

(4) 3 star rated 88-89

(5) 3 star rated 86-87

(9) 3 star rated below 86

(0) 2 star

(0) Unrated

 

That's 21 in 6+ cycles.

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1 minute ago, Mavric said:

 

Because I'm not the thought police.  People can have their own opinions and I don't feel the need to always shoot them down even if I disagree with them.

Amen. All the arguing and debating gets old after a while. There is no need to question every post.

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