Weird Time for Christians

[TGHusker]

2 hours ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Ahhh the recipe of Christianity.

 

1 cup shame

1 cup guilt

2 cups unattainable standards you should be ashamed of not hitting and feel guilty that you can't hit

4 cups fear of hell/destruction

 

Stir gently and pour into a casserole dish.  Coat with 1/4 teaspoon of 'love' to distract from all other ingredients.  Serve brimstone hot.

 

Unfortunately, an Americanized Evangelical Christianity that often is at conflict wt how the Gospel is presented else where and also by much of Christianity in America.  The Evangelical 'wing' just seems to have the loudest megaphone. 

 

I also saw the Graham post and my reaction was

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Scarlet]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Well they got there because people who are easily fooled are the same people who are attracted to fantastical, literal teachings such as Noah's arc, Adam and Eve, Jesus walking on water or rising from the dead, the earth was created in 7 days by a bearded man floating on a cloud 4000 years ago, etc. 

 

It's a mindset.  

 

Literal believers in the Bible have to pull off some major mental gymnastics to do so.  For them it's second nature to do the same when it comes to science denying or believing an orange sociopath was sent by God to save 'Merika.

 

 

 

 

[Scarlet]

53 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

Well they got there because people who are easily fooled are the same people who are attracted to fantastical, literal teachings such as Noah's arc, Adam and Eve, Jesus walking on water or rising from the dead, the earth was created in 7 days by a bearded man floating on a cloud 4000 years ago, etc. 

 

It's a mindset.  

 

Literal believers in the Bible have to pull off some major mental gymnastics to do so.  For them it's second nature to do the same when it comes to science denying or believing an orange sociopath was sent by God to save 'Merika.

 

 

 

 

Grant said it better 

 

[Moiraine]

Getting annoyed seeing these headlines about fights within the church over Trump. This should be a complete non issue for a couple reasons. a) no Christian in their right mind should support Trump and b) churches shouldn't be talking politics enough to know how many support or don't support a politician.

[B.B. Hemingway]

31 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

Getting annoyed seeing these headlines about fights within the church over Trump. This should be a complete non issue for a couple reasons. a) no Christian in their right mind should support Trump and b) churches shouldn't be talking politics enough to know how many support or don't support a politician.

 

I don't know what kind of church you've attended, but there are always quite a few social events held outside of the actual service. Most likely, though probably not exclusively, being discussed there.

[Moiraine]

6 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

I don't know what kind of church you've attended, but there are always quite a few social events held outside of the actual service. Most likely, though probably not exclusively, being discussed there.

 

Social events shouldn't lead to a split within the church, but point taken. From my experience the fights are usually about what is being preached/the interpretation of the Bible, and there shouldn't be any preaching that mentions Trump. I know there is fighting within churches and splits, and I'm not surprised this is happening over Trump given how much support he has from Christians. But it shouldn't be and he shouldn't have. Point A was the biggest one for me. That this is a topic churches would fight over or split up over is ridiculous.

[BigRedBuster]

17 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

Social events shouldn't lead to a split within the church, but point taken. From my experience the fights are usually about what is being preached/the interpretation of the Bible, and there shouldn't be any preaching that mentions Trump. I know there is fighting within churches and splits, and I'm not surprised this is happening over Trump given how much support he has from Christians. But it shouldn't be and he shouldn't have. Point A was the biggest one for me. That this is a topic churches would fight over or split up over is ridiculous.

I can not remember the last time I was sitting in church and politics was mentioned.  I would not attend the church again if it happened and continued.

[TGHusker]

Good article quoted in part below and why now is the time for Evangelical and other Christians to come to a point of reckoning about their support for Trump.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/insurrection-at-the-capitol/2021/01/13/955801878/how-did-we-get-here-a-call-for-an-evangelical-reckoning-on-trump?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

As fallout continues from the deadly siege on the U.S. Capitol, Ed Stetzer, head of the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College in Illinois, has a message for his fellow evangelicals: It's time for a reckoning.

Evangelicals, he says, should look at how their own behaviors and actions may have helped fuel the insurrection. White evangelicals overwhelmingly supported President Trump in the 2020 election.

Some in the protest crowd raised signs with Christian symbolism and phrases.

"Part of this reckoning is: How did we get here? How were we so easily fooled by conspiracy theories?" he tells NPR's Rachel Martin. "We need to make clear who we are. And our allegiance is to King Jesus, not to what boasting political leader might come next."

In the interview, Stetzer also laments that evangelicals seem to have changed their view of morality to support Trump.

"So I think we just need to be honest. A big part of this evangelical reckoning is a lot of people sold out their beliefs," he says.

You write that Trump has burned down the Republican Party. What has he done to the evangelical Christian movement?

If you asked today, "What's an evangelical?" to most people, I would want them to say: someone who believes Jesus died on the cross for our sin and in our place and we're supposed to tell everyone about it. But for most people they'd say, "Oh, those are those people who are really super supportive of the president no matter what he does." And I don't think that's what we want to be known for. That's certainly not what I want to be known for. And I think as this presidency is ending in tatters as it is, hopefully more and more evangelicals will say, "You know, we should have seen earlier, we should have known better, we should have honored the Lord more in our actions these last four years."

 

Should ministers on Sunday mornings be delivering messages about how to sort fact from fiction and discouraging their parishioners from seeking truth in these darkest corners of the Internet peddling lies?

Absolutely, absolutely. Mark Noll wrote years ago a book called The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind, and he was talking about the lack of intellectual engagement in some corners of evangelicalism.

I think the scandal of the evangelical mind today is the gullibility that so many have been brought into — conspiracy theories, false reports and more — and so I think the Christian responsibility is we need to engage in what we call in the Christian tradition, discipleship. Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the life." So Jesus literally identifies himself as the truth; therefore, if there ever should be a people who care about the truth, it should be people who call But we have failed, and I think pulpits and colleges and universities and parachurch ministries and more need to ask the question: How are we going to disciple our people so that they engage the world around them in robust and Christ-like ways? — and I think part of the evangelical reckoning is we haven't done that well. themselves followers of Jesus.

 

 

 

Related:  Link about how Qanon spread into the Christian community:

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/21/904798097/how-qanon-conspiracy-is-spreading-in-christian-communities-across-the-u-s

 

[Moiraine]

3 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

I can not remember the last time I was sitting in church and politics was mentioned.  I would not attend the church again if it happened and continued.

 

 

Ya. I’m guessing at least 75% of churches don’t do it. If I had to guess, the ones that do it most would probably be non denominational mega churches.

 

The church I went to as a kid encourged attending anti abortion events and occasionally spoke out against homosexuality but didn’t promote a certain politician. 

[ColoradoHusk]

13 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Ya. I’m guessing at least 75% of churches don’t do it. If I had to guess, the ones that do it most would probably be non denominational mega churches.

 

The church I went to as a kid encourged attending anti abortion events and occasionally spoke out against homosexuality but didn’t promote a certain politician. 

I’m not a regular church-goer, but attended a friend’s Methodist church for Christmas Eve service in 2019. Before the service, the church commented on how they don’t discriminate against anyone, and welcome homosexual parishioners, even if it’s against National Methodist “guidelines”. It’s a very progressive church in downtown Denver (happens to be the one of the first buildings in the city of Denver), but I still found it interesting that the commented on the issue before the service.  

[Ulty]

17 hours ago, ColoradoHusk said:

I’m not a regular church-goer, but attended a friend’s Methodist church for Christmas Eve service in 2019. Before the service, the church commented on how they don’t discriminate against anyone, and welcome homosexual parishioners, even if it’s against National Methodist “guidelines”. It’s a very progressive church in downtown Denver (happens to be the one of the first buildings in the city of Denver), but I still found it interesting that the commented on the issue before the service.  

The FUMC in downtown Denver? My wife and I were members there for a couple years when we lived in Colorado. Great church, great people, and very progressive. When we were there, politics were never, ever discussed, but the inclusivity and kindness toward all people speak volumes. In our subsequent moves, we haven't found another church like it. I don't consider myself a religious guy, either, but this was a church I felt good in. Other churches tend to give me the creeps.

[ColoradoHusk]

3 hours ago, Ulty said:

The FUMC in downtown Denver? My wife and I were members there for a couple years when we lived in Colorado. Great church, great people, and very progressive. When we were there, politics were never, ever discussed, but the inclusivity and kindness toward all people speak volumes. In our subsequent moves, we haven't found another church like it. I don't consider myself a religious guy, either, but this was a church I felt good in. Other churches tend to give me the creeps.

It's Trinity United Methodist Church, but I think we are referring to the same one.  Again, I am not a regular church-goer, but do like going on Christmas Eve services just for the overall positivity and message of love and togetherness.  I think TUMC is a different experience because of 1) the building - it's historical and such amazing architecture and design makes it unique to today's mega-churches in the suburbs and 2) the diverse people with a message of acceptance, love, and positivity.  It just gave me a good feeling which I like to share with my friends (who invited us) and my family.  I don't get how some sects in Christianity use the scripture to say their beliefs are what causes them to be against homosexuality and other "immoralities".  However, I have seen that homosexuality wasn't mentioned in the Bible until the 1940's, and the scripture was changed by modern American politics and thoughts.  IMO, JC was a person of love and acceptance for all, and TUMC seems to mirror that belief.

[Ulty]

1 minute ago, ColoradoHusk said:

It's Trinity United Methodist Church, but I think we are referring to the same one.  Again, I am not a regular church-goer, but do like going on Christmas Eve services just for the overall positivity and message of love and togetherness.  I think TUMC is a different experience because of 1) the building - it's historical and such amazing architecture and design makes it unique to today's mega-churches in the suburbs and 2) the diverse people with a message of acceptance, love, and positivity.  It just gave me a good feeling which I like to share with my friends (who invited us) and my family.  I don't get how some sects in Christianity use the scripture to say their beliefs are what causes them to be against homosexuality and other "immoralities".  However, I have seen that homosexuality wasn't mentioned in the Bible until the 1940's, and the scripture was changed by modern American politics and thoughts.  IMO, JC was a person of love and acceptance for all, and TUMC seems to mirror that belief.

Yes, it was Trinity, thanks!

[knapplc]

7 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

However, I have seen that homosexuality wasn't mentioned in the Bible until the 1940's, and the scripture was changed by modern American politics and thoughts. 

 

I don't think this is true. I DON'T (that's an edit ) think the Bible was edited or added to. Those passages have always been in there. I think more focus was put toward some of those passages for whatever personal or political reasons.

 

I am with you on the confusion about some sects focus on homosexuality. The Bible enumerates hundreds of things you shouldn't do. Homosexuality is just one of them, and the ones those same sects don't focus on are ones they're most guilty of.

 

Maybe their focus on homosexuality is so they don't feel so bad about their own obvious scriptural shortcomings.

Edited January 19, 2021 by knapplc
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