NM11046 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Fair enough, it's a sensitive subject for me always, but especially now. There's no way I want to swim in the nasty bucket that our pOTUS and his sheep live in. Don't even want it joked about. Link to comment
mrandyk Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 You guys are upset because he isn't PC and called a spade a spade. /s Link to comment
zoogs Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, NM11046 said: Gotta say Zoogs - pretty bold statement. I won't put myself in the racist category, and I think there are plenty of examples of others who won't. Our country as a whole, not "every individual", is what I meant. Like it's not that there's this one outlandish buffoon who also happens to be president. There's a whole lot of people who love this. Then there's a whole lot of people who aren't all that bothered by it. I don't mean it as a joke, either. It's very serious. If only Trump or a small collection of "other" individuals are racist, then all that the rest of us need to do is loudly separate ourselves from them in condemnation. This is a bigger problem than that. Edited January 12, 2018 by zoogs Link to comment
Fru Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I'm glad the GOP has risen up and loudly and collectively condemned these remarks as they are unbeco- Nevermind. 3 Link to comment
sho Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Fru said: I'm glad the GOP has risen up and loudly and collectively condemned these remarks as they are unbeco- Nevermind. Well, Paul Ryan did come out and say the words were 'unfortunate and unhelpful' so that's boldly damning. sigh 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 So....he knew the comment would be inflammatory so he spent the night calling everyone so interested in "how it's playing". Only to be told by some that he's an idiot. We now know why he finally sent out tweets this morning acting like he didn't say it. 1 Link to comment
Landlord Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said: Something is baffling me though. I just can't put my finger on why the KKK and Neo Nazis feel empowered........just can't figure it out. Trump's rhetoric speaks to white Americans who feel threatened. He tells them we're going to make america great again - Who was America ever great for in the past, other than white people? He hires white supremacists and white nationalists for his White House, and to be his delegates. He only barely, softly, tepidly admits wrongdoing on the part of neo-nazis while he vehemently condemns so many other people groups. He pretends he doesn't know David Duke. He's given opportunities to condemn these white hate groups and he dances around it. He follows and retweets white supremacist twitter accounts. All of that paints a picture where these fu#*$ are looking for their champion to bring them into the light, and they believe Trump is that champion. They think he must love them. Actual quotes from white supremacists: "Trump comments were good. He didn’t attack us. He just said the nation should come together. Nothing specific against us." "He said that we need to study why people are so angry, and implied that there was hate… on both sides!" "There was virtually no counter-signaling of us at all. He said he loves us all." "Also refused to answer a question about White Nationalists supporting him. No condemnation at all." "When asked to condemn, he just walked out of the room." "God bless him.Our Glorious Leader and ULTIMATE SAVIOR has gone full-wink-wink-wink to his most aggressive supporters." “The success of the Trump campaign just proves that our views resonate with millions,” “They may not be ready for the Ku Klux Klan yet, but as anti-white hatred escalates, they will.” “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.” - David Duke 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I'm struggling to decide even which thread this should go in. It could fit in several. 4 Link to comment
knapplc Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, zoogs said: Our country as a whole, not "every individual", is what I meant. Like it's not that there's this one outlandish buffoon who also happens to be president. There's a whole lot of people who love this. Then there's a whole lot of people who aren't all that bothered by it. I don't mean it as a joke, either. It's very serious. If only Trump or a small collection of "other" individuals are racist, then all that the rest of us need to do is loudly separate ourselves from them in condemnation. This is a bigger problem than that. Nobody is entirely free from racial bias. Some have very low bias, some are very high. People with little racial bias cannot be considered "racist," any more than a guy who prefers Blondes to Brunettes can be considered an "ist." Language is important in defining these things. It is important to vocalize that not every person is racist, and that those who are choose to be, and that those who enable racists are as guilty as the racists. 3 Link to comment
zoogs Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Woah -- @BigRedBuster, I was just coming here to post the exact same thing. And I agree: this thread seems most fitting for that. @knapplc -- yes, I agree. When I say "we are racist", I'm saying this is an us problem, not a them problem. It's an us problem in the sense that we, Americans, have to look around and see that there's a lot of this happening within our country. It's too neat and easy to mentally cordon off "the most racist" folks, as if they're not a part of the collective we that is America. Edited January 12, 2018 by zoogs Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Here's the frustration about the intelligence analyst who is of Korean decent issue. I honestly think it is perfectly logical that if this person's parents immigrated from Korea and even though she was born and grew up in NYC, that she would have a better understanding of the Korean culture and maybe even be bilingual in Korean...etc. Which, in turn would make it easier for that person to understand the issues and do a better job on the team negotiating with NK. I get that. It's no different than if I wanted a sales person to sell our products in Mexico, I know a number of kids who grew up in Mexican immigrant homes that are smart, bilingual and would probably do a better job than Harry Smith that grew up on a ranch by Thedford, NE. The problem is with how he goes about things and how he treats people. It completely alienates so many good, hardworking people. And, then you put this on top of all the other blatantly racist/sexist things he does and says and.....wow..... 1 Link to comment
QMany Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: Here's the frustration about the intelligence analyst who is of Korean decent issue. I honestly think it is perfectly logical that if this person's parents immigrated from Korea and even though she was born and grew up in NYC, that she would have a better understanding of the Korean culture and maybe even be bilingual in Korean...etc. Which, in turn would make it easier for that person to understand the issues and do a better job on the team negotiating with NK. I get that. It's no different than if I wanted a sales person to sell our products in Mexico, I know a number of kids who grew up in Mexican immigrant homes that are smart, bilingual and would probably do a better job than Harry Smith that grew up on a ranch by Thedford, NE. The problem is with how he goes about things and how he treats people. It completely alienates so many good, hardworking people. And, then you put this on top of all the other blatantly racist/sexist things he does and says and.....wow..... Counterpoint: Trump appointed Ben Carson, a BLACK neurosurgeon, the Director of Housing and URBAN Development. I understand if you want to appoint this lady to a certain position because she may be bilingual, have skills in that culture, etc. But that doesn't appear to be what Trump was doing, of course. She was a hostage expert, not a nuclear arms expert. He was just throwing out assigning the Asian lady to Asian things, somewhat like his decision to appoint a black man to an executive position with absolutely zero experience in urban development. Edited January 12, 2018 by QMany 3 Link to comment
zoogs Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I think it's important to let people define themselves. What's galling about Trump's response to her is he repeatedly ignores her informing him that she's from New York -- incidentally, she might not be very bilingual at all, or have anything beyond a casual understanding of Korean culture. What she does have is professional expertise in another capacity, and that just gets thrown out the window once she's typecast. He looks at her and sees "Asian woman", not "professional analyst specializing in hostage policy". So in this sense, to me, it's more than just that he alienates her personally, it's that he reduces her. And this is a reduction that people of different ethnicities face all the time, at every level of their lives. To shift the focus slightly off Trump again for a moment, consider how Asians, and Asian women, are typically portrayed in Hollywood or on TV -- present avatar excepted! -- and this automatic box we might put around one we encounter becomes less surprising. Trump especially, because he more than most doesn't know anything beyond Diet Coke, his racist heart, and television. Link to comment
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