Healthcare Reform

[BigRedBuster]

8 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at here?  The prices we pay for medical supplies, treatment and medicine is beyond stupid.  I don't think that was ever  in question.

I guess my point is that so often people think about the welfare people taking advantage of the system....meanwhile, looking the other direction you can see people costing Americans WAY more than the people on welfare.  

 

Imagine the guy who can't work because of a disability caused by diabetes costing the American tax payer $42 per month instead of $373 per month of insulin.  Now....multiply that by how many people fall into this group.

[Nebfanatic]

28 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Yeah I'm not really concerned about the color of someone's tie, red and blue are both sleazy when you get to the core of it all.  The numbers are varying across the country.  This has been discussed several times over, but just in my tiny town and county there are a lot of people taking advantage of the system, of welfare, of handouts.

Don't mean to be rude but anecdotal evidence don't fly too well round these parts.

[Ratt Mhule]

44 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

Yeah I'm not really concerned about the color of someone's tie, red and blue are both sleazy when you get to the core of it all.  The numbers are varying across the country.  This has been discussed several times over, but just in my tiny town and county there are a lot of people taking advantage of the system, of welfare, of handouts.

 

People not being able to get health care boils down to the cost of it.  I know I'm not nearly as educated as most on the matter, but I still stand by the fact it was absolutely absurd to force us to purchase something without regulation on the blatant price gouging of rates.  Pay for this insanely expensive thing or we will fine you to pay more money to the guys who ate price gouging you to begin with.  Absurd.

 

When you say taking advantage of, do you mean they can work and are not working?  Or they have a job that pays s#!t and cant afford private insurance?

[Ratt Mhule]

48 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at here?  The prices we pay for medical supplies, treatment and medicine is beyond stupid.  I don't think that was ever  in question.

 

Hes saying that while youre getting mad at the people taking advantage of the system, which is a very small amount of people getting benefits, maybe you should be getting mad at the real people who are screwing us over.

 

 

Not saying you vote republican, and this can be used for democrats to a sense also, but this is basically what Im trying to say above.  The people f#&%ing you are not the ones taking advantage of the system and that's exactly who these companies want you to blame.

[Guy Chamberlin]

5 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

 

Hes saying that while youre getting mad at the people taking advantage of the system, which is a very small amount of people getting benefits, maybe you should be getting mad at the real people who are screwing us over.

 

The U.S. healthcare industry doesn't even adhere to the supply and demand model of free market capitalism, but the guys getting extraordinarily rich on the monopoly and extortion model have done a great job of frightening free market capitalists about socialized medicine. 

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, Redux said:

 

I know I'm not nearly as educated as most on the matter, but I still stand by the fact it was absolutely absurd to force us to purchase something without regulation on the blatant price gouging of rates.  Pay for this insanely expensive thing or we will fine you to pay more money to the guys who ate price gouging you to begin with.  Absurd.

 

It's only as absurd as requiring auto insurance, which never seems to rile people up this way.

 

The only way to combat the insanely high fees for medical equipment, medicine and procedures is through economies of scale, driven by an entity with enough leverage and motivation to negotiate prices. Right now there is virtually no negotiation. But when you get 40 or 50 million customers represented by federal healthcare, they can award a huge piece of business to the company that charges $900 for an artificial hip joint instead of $4,000.  As socialized as that might sound, it's always been a bedrock of Capitalism. 

[Redux]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

I guess my point is that so often people think about the welfare people taking advantage of the system....meanwhile, looking the other direction you can see people costing Americans WAY more than the people on welfare.  

 

Imagine the guy who can't work because of a disability caused by diabetes costing the American tax payer $42 per month instead of $373 per month of insulin.  Now....multiply that by how many people fall into this group.

 

So you're counterpoint is that the people allowed to take advantage if it isn't as big a problem as the astronomical price gouging.  Yeah, I too would rank that higher.  But I think it's turning a blind eye to a real problem.  Not completely but partly.

 

41 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

 

When you say taking advantage of, do you mean they can work and are not working?  Or they have a job that pays s#!t and cant afford private insurance?

 

Faking sickness or injury or whatever in order to get assistance because they are too lazy to work.

 

19 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

It's only as absurd as requiring auto insurance, which never seems to rile people up this way.

 

The only way to combat the insanely high fees for medical equipment, medicine and procedures is through economies of scale, driven by an entity with enough leverage and motivation to negotiate prices. Right now there is virtually no negotiation. But when you get 40 or 50 million customers represented by federal healthcare, they can award a huge piece of business to the company that charges $900 for an artificial hip joint instead of $4,000.  As socialized as that might sound, it's always been a bedrock of Capitalism. 

 

Auto Insurance isn't really something that is life or death for some people.....not a great comparison imo.

 

And I disagree, I think there are ways to stop price gouging without finding people who can't afford healthcare and opt to take the penalties because it's  cheaper.

[Guy Chamberlin]

13 minutes ago, Redux said:

 

 

 

 

Auto Insurance isn't really something that is life or death for some people.....not a great comparison imo.

 

 

 

Well if auto insurance isn't a life or death issue (it kinda is, actually) then wouldn't you be MORE upset that the government requires you to have it and will penalize you if you don't? 

[ZRod]

1 hour ago, Redux said:

People not being able to get health care boils down to the cost of it.  I know I'm not nearly as educated as most on the matter, but I still stand by the fact it was absolutely absurd to force us to purchase something without regulation on the blatant price gouging of rates.  Pay for this insanely expensive thing or we will fine you to pay more money to the guys who ate price gouging you to begin with.  Absurd.

This is a good one to discuss. While Obamacare didn't do too much to improve the price of health insurance,what it tried to do was gutted by Rebuplicans and Trump. The insurance companies we're supposed to receive subsidies from the government (I believe the money came from new taxes on medical devices or something). The GOP stonewalled these subsidies with lawsuites and Trump finally said he wouldn't pay them. The net result was increased premiums.

 

The subsidies we're designed to help control any rise in premiums due to insurance companies been required by law to pick up low income and extremely sick people who did not previous have coverage. When you gut a crucial part of a bill of course it will begin to fail. The truth is that Obamacare was never given a chance by the GOP, because it likely would have been a minor net positive for the country.

[BigRedBuster]

31 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

It's only as absurd as requiring auto insurance, which never seems to rile people up this way.

 

But very different. I am not required to buy auto insurance unless I buy a car....and even then, I’m only required to buy liability. 

[Redux]

7 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

Well if auto insurance isn't a life or death issue (it kinda is, actually) then wouldn't you be MORE upset that the government requires you to have it and will penalize you if you don't? 

 

We are talking about insurance, that's the only comparison.  In America we are forced to pay for Insurance that's more expensive than anywhere else to pay for medicine and treatment that's more expensive than anywhere else.  You can't tell me a penalized fine is really necessary.  Don't they take enough as is?

[Undone]

3 hours ago, NM11046 said:

...but I'd be interested in how long the average person depends on assistance, who uses medicare or medicaid inappropriately etc.

 

Not sure if this is what you were asking about, but just a small anecdote here. A meaningless "sample size of one" kind of a thing. But when I got my job at my current employer 11 years ago I tried to convince a former co-worker to come work at my new company because I knew she'd crush it here and because it paid significantly more. She specifically told me she wouldn't even consider it because it would move her out of the income level where she'd get subsidized housing and assistance. I can't remember exactly what the programs were because it was 11 years ago.

 

That saddened me because she could have really gone places at this company just on a personal growth level and would have been in a position to climb the ladder, both career-wise and pay-wise.

 

But this does apparently exist. Again - simply a sample size of one isolated anecdote, I realize.

[Undone]

52 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

...but the guys getting extraordinarily rich on the monopoly and extortion model have done a great job of frightening free market capitalists about socialized medicine.

 

And they've also done an extraordinarily good job of changing the paradigm of practicing medicine by general practitioners to be reactionary instead of being proactive about one's health.

 

Because if you actually care for the body with whole-body wellness, you don't need as many drugs that just take aim at the symptoms instead of the root cause. Freaking hate that s***.

[Nebfanatic]

10 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

And they've also done an extraordinarily good job of changing the paradigm of practicing medicine by general practitioners to be reactionary instead of being proactive about one's health.

 

Because if you actually care for the body with whole-body wellness, you don't need as many drugs that just take aim at the symptoms instead of the root cause. Freaking hate that s***.

Amen. One thing I wish doctors would do more is look at gut health when patients are going through mental health issues. Alot of times they just perscribe antidepressants, but many new studies are finding strong links between gut health and mental health and I've heard of stories of severely depressed people trying diet as an alternative treatment with incredible results 

[Undone]

1 minute ago, Nebfanatic said:

Amen. One thing I wish doctors would do more is look at gut health when patients are going through mental health issues. Alot of times they just perscribe antidepressants, but many new studies are finding strong links between gut health and mental health and I've heard of stories of severely depressed people trying diet as an alternative treatment with incredible results 

 

I am extremely passionate about this very topic. Leaky Gut Syndrome is more than likely affecting hundreds of thousands if not even millions of Americans and the last thing that big pharma wants is for the problem to be solved through diet.