Healthcare Reform

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, RedDenver said:

The Americans dying because they can't afford medical care

 

More than 26 000 Americans die each year because of lack of health insurance

 

'Kids are falling off': Why fewer children have health insurance now

 

(From before ACA passed) New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage: Uninsured, working-age Americans have 40 percent higher death risk than privately insured counterparts

 

Key Facts about the Uninsured Population

I didn’t read these by have no reason to doubt anything you posted here.  It’s still zero reason to disband a system that works for almost 200 million people.  So figure out a plan to do what Obamacare was supposed to do and find out how to cover the 12-15 million chronically un-insured people.  
 

Don’t take away 200 million people’s Private healthcare while you do it.  
 

[RedDenver]

7 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Want Obamacare sold as giving insurance to everyone in the country?  

Probably. But it's not.

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

Probably. But it's not.

So fix that instead of re-creating an entire new system for the rest of the population.   

[RedDenver]

7 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I didn’t read these by have no reason to doubt anything you posted here.  It’s still zero reason to disband a system that works for almost 200 million people.  So figure out a plan to do what Obamacare was supposed to do and find out how to cover the 12-15 million chronically un-insured people.  
 

Don’t take away 200 million people’s Private healthcare while you do it.  

It's an excellent reason to disband the current system.

 

And there's not really a way to fix things such that the current system survives. Most people get their current insurance through their employer. Businesses will drop that expense the second Medicare for All or a similar system comes along.

 

But I'm fine with people paying for private insurance if they want. But they'll already be paying for Medicare for All, so nobody but the super rich are going to do that. (Similar to how schools are setup with public and private.)

[Archy1221]

50 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

It's an excellent reason to disband the current system.

 

And there's not really a way to fix things such that the current system survives. Most people get their current insurance through their employer. Businesses will drop that expense the second Medicare for All or a similar system comes along.

 

But I'm fine with people paying for private insurance if they want. But they'll already be paying for Medicare for All, so nobody but the super rich are going to do that. (Similar to how schools are setup with public and private.)

That’s sound logic.  Change something for 200,000,000 million people instead of fixing an issue for 12,000,000.  Let’s also look into the reason those people are chronically uninsured when we have all the safety nets available.  
 

Pretty sure we are at that point in time to agree to disagree.  We aren’t changing each other’s mind and you have no interest in discussing how to help uninsured without destroying 60% of the nation’s healthcare.  
 

Here’s to hoping a single payer system is not in place anytime soon.     Thanks for the discussion. 

[RedDenver]

Just now, Archy1221 said:

That’s sound logic.  Change something for 200,000,000 million people instead of fixing an issue for 12,000,000.  Let’s also look into the reason those people are chronically uninsured when we have all the safety nets available.  
 

Pretty sure we are at that point in time to agree to disagree.  We aren’t changing each other’s mind and you have no interest in discussing how to help uninsured without destroying 60% of the nation’s healthcare.  
 

Here’s to hoping a single payer system is not in place anytime soon.     Thanks for the discussion. 

28% of the 200,000,000 are underinsured and will not be able to pay for healthcare as seen by the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills.

Underinsured Rate Rose From 2014-2018, With Greatest Growth Among People in Employer Health Plans

Quote

Twenty-eight percent of U.S. adults who have health insurance through their employer were underinsured in 2018, up from 20 percent just four years earlier. At the same time, people who bought plans on their own through the individual market or the marketplaces were the most likely to be underinsured, with 42 percent reporting a lack of adequate coverage in 2018.

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

Quote

A new study from academic researchers found that 66.5 percent of all bankruptcies were tied to medical issues —either because of high costs for care or time out of work. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found.

 

And medical costs continue to soar. The current system is not sustainable, so it's going away one way or the other.

[Archy1221]

6 hours ago, RedDenver said:

28% of the 200,000,000 are underinsured and will not be able to pay for healthcare as seen by the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills.

Underinsured Rate Rose From 2014-2018, With Greatest Growth Among People in Employer Health Plans

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

 

And medical costs continue to soar. The current system is not sustainable, so it's going away one way or the other.

See bold above.  Tied to not caused by.  

 

Could mean person or family had multiple car loans, no savings, thousands in credit card along with some medical debt.  Was it the medical debt that caused the BK or the totality of debt?  

If you wanna go by the study you cited, well then it shows overall things were better pre-Obamacare and now we have more people “underinsured” and uninsured than pre Obamacare.  Either Obamacare was even worse than I thought or the study is flawed. Too lazy to dig into it deeper 

[Archy1221]

1 hour ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

Actually, if you cared to look it up instead of making a claim that it was only tied to it:

 

More than half of Americans (54%) with medical debt have no other debts listed on their credit reports.  Medical debt actually makes it HARDER for individuals to get credit cards, buy homes, buy cars, etc.  Now this is from 2014 but is the only data point I can find on this type of statistic.

 

https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201412_cfpb_reports_consumer-credit-medical-and-non-medical-collections.pdf

 

 

Additional finding:  About 19.5% of consumer credit reports include one or more medical collections. (Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, 2014)

 

and one that really pisses me off as a Veteran is this...

 

Among families who experience medical bankruptcy, 20.1% are military families. (American Journal of Medicine, 2009)

 

His article that he wanted me to read said tied to and did not say caused by.   So I guess I did look it up.  
And nothing I said after was incorrect. 

[Archy1221]

20 hours ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

Ok, let's take a walk back through this.  You haven't set ANYTHING bout my article I referenced...so let's go from the beginning for perspective.

You said:

 

You were talking about this from the CNBC article:

 

When the actual article they were quoting was from a study published in the American Journal of Health that stated:

 

So, what I posted afterwards should be EYE OPENING for you.  The fact that more than half of Americans (54%) with medical debt have no other debts listed on their credit reports and that among families who experience medical bankruptcy, 20.1% are military families.

 

Just considering the above, over half of those folks filing for bankruptcies referenced in the study DON'T HAVE OTHER DEBT.  So you don't have to presuppose about multiple car loans, no savings, credit card debt, etc.

The AJHP is behind a paywall so I can’t read anything beyond the first page which didn’t say much of anything in specifics. Not saying there isn’t good info later on, I just can’t access it. 
 

as far as your consumer health article goes:

 

1) it seems to say people have medical collections for many different reasons and just ability to pay.  
2) Credit agencies treat medical debt collections differently than normal consumer debt collections.

3) having the presence of medical debt and no other debt on a credit report (not collections report) tells nothing except the consumer is using credit extended by either the provider or CareCredit to pay for a medical procedure.  No different then using a credit card to pay for new furniture or new appliances.  
A good portion of non-medically necessary procedures are paid for this way: LASIK, Clear Lense Exchange, Cosmetic procedures, etc..doesn’t mean they are all going into bankruptcy.  
4) one thing the AJHP did state on bankruptcy; medical bills or work-related income loss.   So not necessarily the medical bills but then extended loss of income to pay every bill that person had.  

[RedDenver]

On 11/25/2020 at 8:32 PM, Archy1221 said:

See bold above.  Tied to not caused by.  

 

Could mean person or family had multiple car loans, no savings, thousands in credit card along with some medical debt.  Was it the medical debt that caused the BK or the totality of debt?  

It's always the totality of debt. That's missing the forest for the trees.

On 11/25/2020 at 8:32 PM, Archy1221 said:

If you wanna go by the study you cited, well then it shows overall things were better pre-Obamacare and now we have more people “underinsured” and uninsured than pre Obamacare.  Either Obamacare was even worse than I thought or the study is flawed.

It doesn't actually say that. We have fewer uninsured partly because they are now classified as underinsured.

On 11/25/2020 at 8:32 PM, Archy1221 said:

Too lazy to dig into it deeper 

This should be the right-wing motto.

[DevoHusker]

 

[knapplc]

On 11/25/2020 at 2:04 PM, Archy1221 said:

t’s still zero reason to disband a system that works for almost 200 million people.

 

It doesn't work for those people. The death panels from those unregulated insurance companies decide who gets what care and who doesn't. And those who get care are bankrupted by it.

 

A civilized nation that boasts the "best" healthcare on the planet shouldn't force 2/3 of total bankruptcies out of unexpected healthcare costs.

 

That's simply absurd.

 

 

[RedDenver]

 

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, RedDenver said:

 

 

 

These people need to go to jail. And from several levels of management, not just the CEO.

 

This is murder.

 

[RedDenver]

The whole thread is astounding and depressing.