Healthcare Reform

[Archy1221]

3 hours ago, RedDenver said:

It would be interesting to compare US outcomes to those from other countries. I agree that overall costs need to come down and there are other reasons for M4A. But the pandemic being both a health crisis and an employment crisis is pretty damning for the current system where healthcare comes primarily from employers.

While looking at the data, keep in mind how deaths are calculated and the PCR threshold for a positive case when comparing the data to the US.  It’s why the media doesn’t use EU to dunk in the US anymore like they did last summer.   
 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

[RedDenver]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Wrong person to be telling to look up what PartD is  and in the following paragraph showed why it’s not as relevant to Covid-19 therapy as you think.  Hopefully you are aware of what Medicare Part A and B are and how those portions of Medicare would deal with Covid-19 care. 

 

I didn’t really ever say Medicare covered “everything” .  I was responding to your post about Medicare not covering “everything” and letting you know what Medicare didn’t cover and how those didn’t pertain to Covid-19 treatment.  The numbers from your article still don’t add up.  

Then prove the numbers don't add up. So far all you've done is express your opinion on the matter as compared to a paper linking data. Simply stating that the numbers don't add up because "Medicare" isn't much of an argument.

[Archy1221]

36 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Then prove the numbers don't add up. So far all you've done is express your opinion on the matter as compared to a paper linking data. Simply stating that the numbers don't add up because "Medicare" isn't much of an argument.

I already have proven it using back of the napkin math in an earlier post.  You just are not accepting it.  
 

 

43 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Simply stating that the numbers don't add up because "Medicare" isn't much of an argument.

 

It actually is quite the argument to make.  
 

.9% of seniors are uninsured.  (Age 65 and older) CDC Data

99.1% of seniors have health insurance. (Age 65 and older) CDC Data 

80% of Covid deaths are in people aged 65 and older.  CDC Data

99.1% of those would have had health insurance according to the CDC
 

I don’t see how it’s possible for 33% of American Covid-19 deaths to be related to un-insured or underinsured people.  Basic math tells a different story. 
 

[RedDenver]

10 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I already have proven it using back of the napkin math in an earlier post.  You just are not accepting it.  
 

 

 

It actually is quite the argument to make.  
 

.9% of seniors are uninsured.  (Age 65 and older) CDC Data

99.1% of seniors have health insurance. (Age 65 and older) CDC Data 

80% of Covid deaths are in people aged 65 and older.  CDC Data

99.1% of those would have had health insurance according to the CDC
 

I don’t see how it’s possible for 33% of American Covid-19 deaths to be related to un-insured or underinsured people.  Basic math tells a different story. 
 

I see what you're getting at now. You're only looking at the direct deaths, while the paper is talking about causes of covid deaths because it's a highly infectious disease. For example, an uninsured person that got covid and passed it to someone else that died. What is the chance that death could have been prevented if the uninsured person had health insurance and gotten care? The paper is a statistical analysis of a large variety of possible factors.

 

Here's the referenced paper that I linked previously that goes into the details by studying data from every county in the US:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffamiliesusa.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F03%2F2021-37_Loss-of-Lives_Report_AnalysisStyleB_Final.pdf

 

Here's a quote that I think summarizes the findings well (emphasis mine): 

Quote

Using data from every U.S. county, they analyzed the impact not just of health insurance, but also of population density, urbanization, housing overcrowding, air pollution, gender, age, race, ethnicity, residential housing segregation, education, unemployment, income, income inequality, diabetes, obesity, smoking, sexually transmitted disease rates (as a proxy for in-person interactions), travel outside the home, county population size, and state. After controlling for all of these factors, they found that each 10% increase in the proportion of county residents without health insurance was associated with a 70% increase in the county’s COVID-19 cases and a 48% increase in COVID-19 deaths. Put another way, people living in counties with higher proportions of uninsured individuals were significantly more likely to fall ill and to die from COVID-19.

 

[NUance]

39 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I see what you're getting at now. You're only looking at the direct deaths, while the paper is talking about causes of covid deaths because it's a highly infectious disease. For example, an uninsured person that got covid and passed it to someone else that died. What is the chance that death could have been prevented if the uninsured person had health insurance and gotten care? The paper is a statistical analysis of a large variety of possible factors.

 

Here's the referenced paper that I linked previously that goes into the details by studying data from every county in the US:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffamiliesusa.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F03%2F2021-37_Loss-of-Lives_Report_AnalysisStyleB_Final.pdf

 

Here's a quote that I think summarizes the findings well (emphasis mine): 

 

 

Quote

"they found that each 10% increase in the proportion of county residents without health insurance was associated with a 70% increase in the county’s COVID-19 cases and a 48% increase in COVID-19 deaths"  

 

Re this part of the quote:  I'd be willing to bet that there's a high correlation between people who are uninsured and people who disregard Covid safety measures.  Even if the Covid disregarders were given free insurance they'd still ignore safety measures and raise the nation's Covid stats.  I'm just spitballing here.  

 

 

[RedDenver]

16 hours ago, NUance said:

 

 

Re this part of the quote:  I'd be willing to bet that there's a high correlation between people who are uninsured and people who disregard Covid safety measures.  Even if the Covid disregarders were given free insurance they'd still ignore safety measures and raise the nation's Covid stats.  I'm just spitballing here.  

 

 

Possible, but there's no data that I've seen to support that conclusion, especially the speculation that they'd ignore even if given free insurance. We could also conjecture that uninsured people are typically poor people who were at the mercy of their employers and were forced to take unnecessary risks, like the meat packing plants and Amazon warehouse workers.

[Archy1221]

4 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Possible, but there's no data that I've seen to support that conclusion, especially the speculation that they'd ignore even if given free insurance. We could also conjecture that uninsured people are typically poor people who were at the mercy of their employers and were forced to take unnecessary risks, like the meat packing plants and Amazon warehouse workers.

Taking care of our employees' health and wellness is a priority. That's why we offer medical, prescription drug, dental, and vision coverage to all our employees, regardless of their level, tenure, or position.   
www.aboutamazon.com

 

Benefits

We are dedicated to providing our team members and their families with affordable health, life, dental, vision and prescription drug benefits. In fact, we require all regular, full-time team members who have completed 59 days of employment to have health care coverage through either the company-sponsored health plan or through a family member’s plan. This means that 100 percent of our eligible team members have access to health care coverage.

 

www.tysonsustainability.com

 

Comprehensive health insurance and benefits packages are offered to employees in recognition of the value employees bring to the company. These include 401(k) and pension plans, life insurance, and vision and dental care. Many locations provide on-site medical care and preventive health screenings.
 

Smithfieldfoods.com

 

 

On a side note, Covid-19 doesn’t care if you have health insurance or not.  Behavior generally dictates whether someone gets infected or doesn’t, not whether you have insurance or not.  

[RedDenver]

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

Taking care of our employees' health and wellness is a priority. That's why we offer medical, prescription drug, dental, and vision coverage to all our employees, regardless of their level, tenure, or position.   
www.aboutamazon.com

 

Benefits

We are dedicated to providing our team members and their families with affordable health, life, dental, vision and prescription drug benefits. In fact, we require all regular, full-time team members who have completed 59 days of employment to have health care coverage through either the company-sponsored health plan or through a family member’s plan. This means that 100 percent of our eligible team members have access to health care coverage.

 

www.tysonsustainability.com

 

Comprehensive health insurance and benefits packages are offered to employees in recognition of the value employees bring to the company. These include 401(k) and pension plans, life insurance, and vision and dental care. Many locations provide on-site medical care and preventive health screenings.
 

Smithfieldfoods.com

Yes, I'm sure the websites of those companies are being completely honest and forthright.

 

Amazon Illegally Interrogated Worker Who Led First COVID-19 Strikes, NLRB Says

Amazon’s chronic woes with workers’ mental health, ruthless work conditions deepen after another employee suicide

Does Amazon Care About Worker Safety? Despite numerous statements stressing safety is a priority, Amazon continues to expose workers to unsafe work conditions.

 

Meatpacking plants have been deadly COVID-19 hot spots – but policies that encourage workers to show up sick are legal

Quote

Workers at Tyson and JBS plants are required to go to work even if they are experiencing symptoms of COVID-19 or awaiting test results. The companies excuse absences for COVID-19 only if a worker has tested positive for the virus, or in Tyson’s case, has “documented clinical symptoms.” Tyson and JBS workers have told reporters that costs and wait times make it hard for them to access testing, so they go to work sick.

 

1 hour ago, Archy1221 said:

On a side note, Covid-19 doesn’t care if you have health insurance or not.  Behavior generally dictates whether someone gets infected or doesn’t, not whether you have insurance or not.  

People's healthcare choices and therefore behavior depend heavily on if they have health insurance or not. The idea that behavior is divorced from insurance is ludicrous.

[Archy1221]

2 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Yes, I'm sure the websites of those companies are being completely honest and forthright.

 

Amazon Illegally Interrogated Worker Who Led First COVID-19 Strikes, NLRB Says

Amazon’s chronic woes with workers’ mental health, ruthless work conditions deepen after another employee suicide

Does Amazon Care About Worker Safety? Despite numerous statements stressing safety is a priority, Amazon continues to expose workers to unsafe work conditions.

 

Meatpacking plants have been deadly COVID-19 hot spots – but policies that encourage workers to show up sick are legal

 

People's healthcare choices and therefore behavior depend heavily on if they have health insurance or not. The idea that behavior is divorced from insurance is ludicrous.

You said they don’t have health insurance.  I clearly showed you they did.  I don’t think any of your links suggest otherwise.   

 

In a previous post, you made it a point to call out these specific instances of no health insurance.  

[RedDenver]

2 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

You said they don’t have health insurance.  I clearly showed you they did.  I don’t think any of your links suggest otherwise.   

 

In a previous post, you made it a point to call out these specific instances of no health insurance.  

Nice try to twist my words. I clearly said their employers forced them to take unnecessary risks, which I've now also linked articles about. Here's my post that you quoted:

6 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Possible, but there's no data that I've seen to support that conclusion, especially the speculation that they'd ignore even if given free insurance. We could also conjecture that uninsured people are typically poor people who were at the mercy of their employers and were forced to take unnecessary risks, like the meat packing plants and Amazon warehouse workers.

 

[Archy1221]

8 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

that uninsured people are typically poor people who were at the mercy of their employers and were forced to take unnecessary risks, like the meat packing plants and Amazon warehouse workers.

Make sure and include the “uninsured” portion of that comment that was directed at Amazon and Meat packing plant employees.  
 

which remember that your whole article was about uninsurable causing 1/3 of Covid deaths.  

[RedDenver]

17 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Make sure and include the “uninsured” portion of that comment that was directed at Amazon and Meat packing plant employees.  

Wat? I literally included my entire post.

[Archy1221]

28 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Wat? I literally included my entire post.

And you only highlighted a portion.  Your entire post reads that Amazon workers and meat packing plant workers were uninsured. 

[RedDenver]

9 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

And you only highlighted a portion.  Your entire post reads that Amazon workers and meat packing plant workers were uninsured. 

Strawman and pretend you don't understand all you want, but it just makes you look silly. The meat packing and Amazon examples came immediately after I mentioned unnecessary risk. I later posted links to the unnecessary risks by meat packing and Amazon.

[Archy1221]

4 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Strawman and pretend you don't understand all you want, but it just makes you look silly. The meat packing and Amazon examples came immediately after I mentioned unnecessary risk. I later posted links to the unnecessary risks by meat packing and Amazon.

Strawman is your go to phrase every single time someone on here shows you are wrong on something.  
 

So which is it, unnecessary risks caused 1/3 of Covid deaths or uninsured caused 1/3 of Covid deaths?  Your article says uninsured, yet you now talk about unnecessary risks.  Speaking of that, did you order anything from Amazon or eat some type of meat in March April May or June?