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Lindsey and Owen Hospitalized


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S&C is not a joke under Duval. Hell we heard some of the rumors that kids could barely do anything off the floor with correct form/explosion. Add in a lack of accountability and some excruciating workouts and this can happen. I don’t think Duval was prepared for how “out of shape” some of these kids are.

Also for what it’s worth Duval reduced the initial plan down. 

Edited by Decked
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1 hour ago, DaveH said:

Sure it sounds like they tried but think about it this way.

 

If something would have really gone bad and a player was unable to play again or his life was otherwise permanently effected, would the answer of "well, we tried" be good enough? When it comes down to it, there's really no excuse. Hopefully they learned something. 

 

 

Are you a S&C coach?

An expert in exercise physiology?

A medical professional?

What is your beef here?

Unfortunately rhabdo happens and these two are going to be fine. 

The team is way out of shape and needs to be better for next year so we don’t have another 4-8 season. 

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This is more of an indictment on the previous strength/coaching staff than anyone else. It's hard to believe how (apparently) unprepared some of these players were for the off-season program. Good on Frost for taking accountibility on the issue, and let's just hope that it doesn't happen again, and there's no long term issues for the two players.

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4 hours ago, darkhorse85 said:

 

I think this is most levelheaded thing I've read in this thread so far.

+1

 

After reading some of the threads...it's almost like someone is blaming the coaching staff for negligence. Good lord. It happens. It wasn't intentional. But then again....everyone has it all figured out behind a screen. 

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None of us know what happened and speculating on this stuff is a nice intellectual exercise (no pun intended....okay, maybe un poco). My gut feeling is that if there were a lot more kids suffering from this (ala I_OWA), you can point at the staff. But consider this:

  1. there were only two players affected
  2. none that we know of at CFU while Duval was there
  3. the staff had previously dialed down the intensity
  4. the team's clear lack of conditioning when Duval arrived (how many players have been tapping their helmets during games over the last few years)

I'm tentatively thinking that this was more of an anomaly than anything. Now, it if continues righteous indignation is appropriate but at this stage harping at the SC staff seems premature.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

There also have been reports that some nutritional supplements, as well as performance-enhancing drugs such as creatine supplements and anabolic steroids, are associated with rhabdomyolysis and kidney failure.

Athletes who push their bodies beyond their physical limits are at particular at risk for developing this disorder. For instance, people who do a lot of weight lifting may develop rhabdomyolysis if they lift more than their muscles can physically handle

I would agree with this and add that not allowing your body enough rest before your next workout can cause muscle issues.  Especially if you pushed yourself hard in the previous workout.  This injury is serious and it looks like Scott and staff take it seriously.  While none of us know the actual facts other then "fairly intense" workouts I am not willing to simply throw the S&C couch under the bus until I have a lot more of the details as to what these kids were doing day to day with their work outs, what was their current condition (in shape etc.) and were they being supervised whenever they were in the gym etc. 

Edited by San Diego Husker
Grammer
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8 hours ago, LumberJackSker said:

Isn't this also on the fault of the previous staff?

If riley and co had these guys in the shape they were supposed to be in what is the chance of something like this happening especially this soon into wirk outs?

It’s January. Glad they are ok. Serious business. Great athletes+guys trying to get a great first impression. Hope the strength staff learned a valuable lesson. 

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3 hours ago, DaveH said:

I don't have the details of the training so I can't really say what specifically I'd do differently. Nor am I really qualified to do that.

 

I would say that I really don't think this situation should be a variable when designing a program. The state of D1 strength and conditioning in general needs to improve such that we shouldn't be left wondering if a workout will land people in the hospital. :dunno

I think you’re more qualified than most on this board. I like your take 

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4 hours ago, DaveH said:

I don't have the details of the training so I can't really say what specifically I'd do differently. Nor am I really qualified to do that.

 

I would say that I really don't think this situation should be a variable when designing a program. The state of D1 strength and conditioning in general needs to improve such that we shouldn't be left wondering if a workout will land people in the hospital. :dunno

But yet you can come out and definitively say that they shouldn’t have done the program? Again, you don’t have the full details to know what precautions were taken. 

 

I feel like you can’t say one without the other. 

Edited by HuskerNBigD
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Just thought I'd drop in and provide a little information on the type of workout they were doing. Forgive me if this is all a bit vague and jumbled, but it's been a while since I've done anything with S&C and am typing this on the quick. It's called a metabolic circuit. Google "metabolic circuit huskers" and the first result will be a pdf that explains it in pretty good depth, with a full breakdown of the lifts and work:rest ratios. It was developed and used by Nebraska in I believe the 90s, and continues to be the foundational program used by coaches belonging to the Epley/Arthur coaching tree. It is the "strength" component in a split program, which I'd wager coach Duval is using and looks essentially like this ("Heavy" and "Light" just means % of 1Rm used for weight):

 

Monday Light "Power" (e.g. Clean shrugs, Hang Clean; plyometrics and speed work on the field)

Tuesday Heavy "Strength" (e.g Metabolic circuit; agility on the field)

 

Wednesday Off

 

Thursday Heavy "Power"

Friday Light "Strength"

 

It is a KILLER workout. The intensity of the lifts combined with the W:R ratio makes you feel like you are going to die. The closest thing I could compare it to is like the feeling after running a really hard 400 or 800 when you're not properly conditioned, only worse, for about 35 minutes. If you are in less than excellent shape you will not be able to complete it. Even guys who are in "good" shape will really struggle with it because of the unique and particular stress it imposes on the body. I believe at one point they wouldn't allow athletes to do it without first being in the S&C program for two years, and even after that they had to do a month's worth of preparatory workouts which were basically metabolic circuits-lite (2x10 vs 3x10, working at lower %1RM).

 

With all that said it will get results. It's almost like a cheat code for really jump starting physical development. Also, while it is akin to physical and psychological torture initially, you adapt to it pretty quick. I believe coach Duval said something to the effect that guys would be in survival mode at first, then later being able to really grab the reins and push it. That's a pretty accurate description of what the athletes will experience

 

Edited by husker07
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