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Lindsey and Owen Hospitalized

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2 hours ago, khaake said:

It's a serious matter. If your opinion is that getting the team in shape is worth risking the lives of the players, you need to rethink your priorities.

 

Who are you talking to? Me? It's not that I don't think it's a serious matter. My point is that it wasn't intentional and they did take multiple precautions to try and prevent it. It was an accident. No one tried to run these two young men into the ground.

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9 minutes ago, 307husker said:


I don't understand your perspective fully.  The only way to guarantee that rhabdo does not occur would be to avoid vigorous physical conditioning.  

There is no way for either the staff or the athletes to know where the line is between good hard work, and overwork...

ALL physical training causes some degree of muscle fiber damage.  It's simply a matter of how much is done and whether the body can respond productively to that damage.  Rhabdo isn't really a binary diagnosis.  There are highly variable levels of CK levels in the blood signifying muscle breakdown.  At some point the number on the lab chart reaches the threshold to officially dx Rhabdomyolysis and significant concern for kidney function becomes the overwhelming priority for the health care providers.

 

I generally agree, but I think maybe they found a hint where this line lies for some. I hope they have some copious notes with regard to what led up to this.

 

That being said, I don't think productive training requires knowing where this line is. I have a feeling that approaching this line doesn't really help elicit the adaptation you're looking for and more than staying a good distance away.

 

I'd only additionally mention that while yes, some muscle damage is a result of productive training, muscle destruction is not. The -lysis in Rhabdomyolysis almost literally means death or at least leading to cell death. It would be good to stay away from that :) 

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1 hour ago, Stumpy1 said:

They dropped 8 mins off the lifting session because it was to much for some of the players.  They also brought in more trainers to help keep an eye on them and to stop them if they started showing symptoms of over doing it.  They were already taking precautions when this occurred.  

Precisely. It's not like they didn't give a s#!t. 

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7 minutes ago, Decoy73 said:

Rhabdo, concussions, CTE, C-spine injuries, compound fractures other freak serious injuries (e.g Teddy Bridgewater’s) are ALL unacceptable, however we (football fans) seem to “accept” some more than others. 

 

If rhabdomyolysis was not a risk of high level training, then it would never occur. Ever. 

I think there is a difference.  Injuries on the field are at times unavoidable because the environment is not controlled.  Coaches can't, and shouldn't, apologize or take responsibility for injuries that occur on the field unless they are a result of negligence.

 

Supervised training, while intense, does occur in a controlled environment where safety is paramount.  Coaches and trainers should take responsibility when something like this happens. 

 

If a player herniates a disk on the field....tough break.  If a player herniates a disk in a squat rack, there should be some questions asked.

Edited by Jason Sitoke
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6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

But I think it reinforces how out of shape and poorly conditioned our players likely were based on the half-assed work culture Riley and Co. built.

 

As has been mentioned previously, I don't think ALL the blame can be placed on Riley.  But I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of it should be - both here and other reports.

 

"This team is as out of shape in the weight room as this staff could ever imagined. It's caused them to change the entire winter program." - Sean Callahan

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1 hour ago, Jason Sitoke said:

Why would you donate broken down kidneys?  Not even Goodwill accepts broken stuff.  

They do if you put it in a box of other misc junk.  They only find out it's broken after the fact haha.

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12 minutes ago, 307husker said:

I don't understand your perspective fully.  The only way to guarantee that rhabdo does not occur would be to avoid vigorous physical conditioning.  

There is no way for either the staff or the athletes to know where the line is between good hard work, and overwork...

ALL physical training causes some degree of muscle fiber damage.  It's simply a matter of how much is done and whether the body can respond productively to that damage.  Rhabdo isn't really a binary diagnosis.  There are highly variable levels of CK levels in the blood signifying muscle breakdown.  At some point the number on the lab chart reaches the threshold to officially dx Rhabdomyolysis and significant concern for kidney function becomes the overwhelming priority for the health care providers.

I think it's critical to take what I'm saying at face value: rhabdo is an unacceptable result regardless of circumstances, be it the player's fault, the coach's fault or some modicum of blame spread between them. Yes, it does happen, but it's an uncommon malady typically associated (fairly or not) with an inappropriate and or misguided workout regimen.

 

I think a good analogy would be like this: say your engine seizes because you haven't had an oil change in 12 months and you generally take poor care of your car. It was unacceptable for the engine to seize because you controlled the result. But, in the end, I'm not going to lambast you for it so long as you appear to take what happened seriously. By all accounts, Frost, staff and players are disappointed and taking it seriously.

 

I also think it's important to note I don't intend to place blame on any one party here. There's probably some measure of blame to be spread around. Perhaps the players weren't as prepared as they should be. Perhaps the staff missed a precaution that could've prevented this. Either way, it's critical to learn and move forward and it appears they are.

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16 minutes ago, SUHperman said:

Bunch of UCF players commenting on this off-season circuit. 

 

 

 

Interesting..

 

I think that if you're able to do three sets of 10 reps on a squat, it wasn't that heavy. Or you're squatting high.

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6 minutes ago, DaveH said:

 

Interesting..

 

I think that if you're able to do three sets of 10 reps on a squat, it wasn't that heavy. Or you're squatting high.

I think that's where the "fairly intense" part comes in

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34 minutes ago, Mavric said:

 

As has been mentioned previously, I don't think ALL the blame can be placed on Riley.  But I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of it should be - both here and other reports.

 

"This team is as out of shape in the weight room as this staff could ever imagined. It's caused them to change the entire winter program." - Sean Callahan

Nice guy Riley the gift that keeps on giving

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