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S&P reached a record high in January


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1 minute ago, ZRod said:

Really????

 

We've pretty much been saying for the past few years that the market is due for a correction. Many here have even said that it was probably going to happen in 2017 or 2018 no matter who was president. Plenty have said that we couldn't continue the almost unheard of upward trend we've seen for almost a decade...

 

Obama basically started at zero. There was no where to go but up. It looks like Trump, for all we know because we can't look through the lense of history yet, started about 100 feet from the summit. It's not apples to apples. 

 

Time will tell if this is a correction, the beginning of a recession, or something else. But the comparison at this point between Obama's first 2 years and Trump's first 2 is dishonest at best. We've hardly seen any downward trend the last decade so of course a year with zero gain will be the worst in a decade...

I agree with your general point, but Trump has been running around claiming the successes of the stock market as his own. He and the Repubs told us all about how the tax cuts and deregulation would create this incredible economy. Now people are pointing out that Trump and the Repubs need to own the failures if they've been crowing about the successes.

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24 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I agree with your general point, but Trump has been running around claiming the successes of the stock market as his own. He and the Repubs told us all about how the tax cuts and deregulation would create this incredible economy. Now people are pointing out that Trump and the Repubs need to own the failures if they've been crowing about the successes.

But you see how it looks pretty foolish to reinforce a flash dichotomy, right? You're essentially giving legitimacy to a blowhards unfounded statements. Then he can continue the charade and shift blame to the damn libs.

 

We have to be better than that.

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24 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I agree with your general point, but Trump has been running around claiming the successes of the stock market as his own. He and the Repubs told us all about how the tax cuts and deregulation would create this incredible economy. Now people are pointing out that Trump and the Repubs need to own the failures if they've been crowing about the successes.

 

This.

 

Yes, the stock market was due for a period of pulling back or no rise.  What you hope is that it's a soft landing.  My biggest problem with his over zealous actions and rhetoric that drove the stock market up so fast after his election is that it creates an environment where that "soft landing" is much harder to accomplish.  

 

Right now, we are somewhere around 8-9% down on the year and around 14% from the highs.  The blubbering idiots actions aren't doing anything to ease that fall and turn it around.

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51 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

This.

 

Yes, the stock market was due for a period of pulling back or no rise.  What you hope is that it's a soft landing.  My biggest problem with his over zealous actions and rhetoric that drove the stock market up so fast after his election is that it creates an environment where that "soft landing" is much harder to accomplish.  

 

Right now, we are somewhere around 8-9% down on the year and around 14% from the highs.  The blubbering idiots actions aren't doing anything to ease that fall and turn it around.

 

Is this the right time to mention the myth of trickle down economics? 

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3 minutes ago, VectorVictor said:

 

Is this the right time to mention the myth of trickle down economics? 

 

I'm not a promoter of trickle down economics mainly because it's not a theory that is the end all be all for every situation.  However, what's happening right now in the stock market has very little to do with the theory.

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1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I'm not a promoter of trickle down economics mainly because it's not a theory that is the end all be all for every situation.  However, what's happening right now in the stock market has very little to do with the theory.

 

It does have a lot to do with the existing tax plan which is inflating the deficit and for the rich to make a blatant money grab before the economy goes to s**t. It was sold as something benefiting the middle class via investment by the rich and corporations into their businesses and employees.

 

Had that tax plan not been in place, things would have been a bit smoother for everyone involved--as it stands now, the only folks with a smooth landing in what appears to be a bumblin', stumblin' bear market will be the rich that benefited from the tax plan. 

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1 minute ago, VectorVictor said:

 

It does have a lot to do with the existing tax plan which is inflating the deficit and for the rich to make a blatant money grab before the economy goes to s**t. It was sold as something benefiting the middle class via investment by the rich and corporations into their businesses and employees.

 

Had that tax plan not been in place, things would have been a bit smoother for everyone involved--as it stands now, the only folks with a smooth landing in what appears to be a bumblin', stumblin' bear market will be the rich that benefited from the tax plan. 

 

Again, I'm not a big proponent of the entire theory of "trickle down economics".  However, wages for lower and middle class families are rising faster now than they have prior to the tax cuts.

 

And....the stock market really doesn't have anything to do with lower income people.

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10 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Again, I'm not a big proponent of the entire theory of "trickle down economics".  However, wages for lower and middle class families are rising faster now than they have prior to the tax cuts.

 

And....the stock market really doesn't have anything to do with lower income people.

 

Can you point me to this data?

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13 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Again, I'm not a big proponent of the entire theory of "trickle down economics".  However, wages for lower and middle class families are rising faster now than they have prior to the tax cuts.

 

And....the stock market really doesn't have anything to do with lower income people.

 

 

 

I’ve read this on here twice now but I have trouble finding it when Googling. The graph below shows wages not keeping up with inflation and I don’t see it rising faster. The rise is slower than the one in the 2nd half of 2016. I know you said lower and middle class though so feel free to reply with that info. 

 

atlas_HJmCIlaz7@2x.png

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1 hour ago, ZRod said:

But you see how it looks pretty foolish to reinforce a flash dichotomy, right? You're essentially giving legitimacy to a blowhards unfounded statements. Then he can continue the charade and shift blame to the damn libs.

 

We have to be better than that.

No, we're pointing out the stupidity of these blowhards and of the ridiculous economic arguments they make. If they were just random people shouting on a street corner or on the internet, then I'd agree with you. But this is the President of the United States and the Republican politicians who are currently in control of both Houses of Congress.

 

Simply ignoring these words and actions is how we ended up repeating the same mistakes. As pointed out, trickle down economic ideas continue to abound despite them failing spectacularly at every level.

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I don't have a lot to add.  Trump is an idiot and he'll no doubt do his best to tank the economy again before we are rid of him, but he's not doing it alone.

 

It's time to start referring to "Trickle down economics" (supply side economics) how it was in the 1890s.  It should tell you more about how viable a theory it is.  Then it was the "horse and sparrow theory" as in: "If you feed a horse enough oats, some will surely pass through to the sparrow".

 

Republican theories on business, taxation and monetary policy have been around a long time.  They just like to rebrand them and dupe idiots into thinking they sound good and sensible for everyone, not just the horses.  Y'all enjoy eating s#!t right?

 

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21 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Hmmm....according to your own chart, wages are now rising faster than pretty much any time since November of 08.  They started rising again in February 2018.

 

 

As far as I can tell (looking at mobile site) it doesn’t adjust for inflation. 

 

By my calc the rate of increase for the Feb ‘18 to Oct ‘18 jump is 0.0857 and the rate or increase for the Oct ‘15 - Nov ‘16 jump is 0.0769.

 

But the consumer price index is higher now than it was in ‘16. 

 

If we ignore all other variables and assume wages are based only on taxes, and if we pretend it makes sense to look at itty bitty points in time for wage growth, the difference is still not worth the debt the country is racking up. 

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