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Parkland, FL High School Shooting


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35 minutes ago, husker98 said:

We ban guns because a couple hundred people die over these past few years we open the door for possibly many many times that to die in an invasion like the Romans and so many other countries did by banning their peoples right to defense.

 

That is one hell of a Jump to Conclusions mat you're using. 

 

I'm sorry, but I'll take the option that decreases the risk of children dying in schools, thank you. 

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34 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

 

So you're seriously saying that America, with the world's most powerful military, alone among the rest of the first-world nations, actually needs its citizens to be armed with small weapons just in case a foreign adversary defeats our military and ends up on American soil.

 

This is simply not realistic.

 

 

History vehemently disagrees. And has the mass graves to back it up. Super powers fall all time. The Soviet union proves that.

 

12 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Spare me the history lesson, but what exactly is the NEED for an average American citizen to have an AR-15 military grade weapon?  I understand that over 99% of those who own those weapons are proper gun owners, but why do they even NEED a gun like that?

 

That was the entire reason for the history lesson.

 

30 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

There definitely is a price to pay.

 

 Do you support Trump's actions removing restrictions on people like this kid from legally buying a gun?

 

I do not and am infuriated that he did. Or infuriated at who ever convinced him to do it. 

 

 

Edited by husker98
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47 minutes ago, husker98 said:

 

A lot of people said the same thing about the Roman Empire and it military too.

 

Yet they still suffered defeat and lost everything.

 

Britain falls into this category as well in the revolutionary war. They also lost to tribal Africans armed with spears in south Africa in the 1800s.

 

 

I would agree with you. Who would invade us? A country so large and powerful.

China and Russia both would tell you a several stories of those who have tried.

You never know who until it happens.

 

I'm just pointing out history and it's pattern to repeat it's self. And how we seem on pace to repeat those mistakes again.

 

We ban guns because a couple hundred people die over these past few years we open the door for possibly many many times that to die in an invasion like the Romans and so many other countries did by banning their peoples right to defense.

 

 

People must consider everything, every possibility before jumping to conclusions. Answers to tough issues are rarely so easy and expense free. There is always a price to pay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes...Please sit back and consider the 1:10000000000000000 odds that a foreign country invades us.  Then, take into consideration the 1:1000000000000000 odds that once our military is overthrown by this foreign superpower, us citizens will somehow, someway, defeat this foreign military superpower. Once we think long and hard about this, we can finally start passing COMMON SENSE gun laws. 

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31 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Let's be clear here.  A very very very few people who are on the fringe are claiming we need to ban guns.

 

I think the number of people who would ban all guns is higher than you think. I own a couple and I'd happily give them up if everyone else did it as well, but I think we all know that simply isn't realistic.

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2 minutes ago, wiby_NU said:

Yes...Please sit back and consider the 1:10000000000000000 chance that a foreign country invades us.  Then, take into consideration the 1:1000000000000000 chance that once our military is overthrown by this foreign superpower, us citizens will somehow, someway, defeat this foreign military superpower. Once we think long and hard about this, when can finally start passing COMMON SENSE gun laws. 

It's not going to be a foreign country, it's going to be a foreign planet!!!  I'm going to recommend you watch the documentary titled Independence Day.

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3 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

It's not going to be a foreign country, it's going to be a foreign planet!!!  I'm going to recommend you watch the documentary titled Independence Day.

:lol:  I take back everything I said.  Time to search the interwebs for my new Semi-Auto gun purchase.

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51 minutes ago, husker98 said:

 

A lot of people said the same thing about the Roman Empire and it military too.

 

Yet they still suffered defeat and lost everything.

 

Britain falls into this category as well in the revolutionary war. They also lost to tribal Africans armed with spears in south Africa in the 1800s.

 

 

I would agree with you. Who would invade us? A country so large and powerful.

China and Russia both would tell you a several stories of those who have tried.

You never know who until it happens.

 

I'm just pointing out history and it's pattern to repeat it's self. And how we seem on pace to repeat those mistakes again.

 

We ban guns because a couple hundred people die over these past few years we open the door for possibly many many times that to die in an invasion like the Romans and so many other countries did by banning their peoples right to defense.

 

 

People must consider everything, every possibility before jumping to conclusions. Answers to tough issues are rarely so easy and expense free. There is always a price to pay.

I

51 minutes ago, husker98 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The foundation of your argument is based on an over simplification of events nearly 2 Millennia ago. Before firearms, steam engines, the combustion engine, nuclear weapons, stealth planes, the internet, GPS, drones... 

 

 

I agree that we need to consider all aspects. But I think the lives of innocence CHILDREN far out weight the infinitesimally small chance that someone defeats the US military and supporting agencies on our own soil. 

 

I am not a gun owner, but I have enjoyed recreational shooting. I see merits in hunting and other firearm disciplins, but I do not see a need for AR type rifles in civilian hands when they have monstrous consequences in the wrong hands.

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25 minutes ago, husker98 said:

History vehemently disagrees. And has the mass graves to back it up. Super powers fall all time. The Soviet union proves that.


Superpowers do not fall at the height of their power, at least not through foreign invasion.

 

The Roman Empire had fallen into dotage and had largely farmed out their military to mercenaries by the time they fell.

 

The Soviet Union was not defeated in Afghanistan, they were defeated at the ballot box, and through glasnost. 

 

The Germans were defeated not solely by Russia (a nearly equivalent power at the time) but by the combined might of the US, England, Russia, France, Canada, and all the other Allies. 

 

 

But let's say, arguendo, that your premise is realistic, and that America is, in the next few years, defeated militarily by a foreign power (or powers).

 

What does history tell us about the citizens of defeated countries, armed though they may be?

 

The Nazis armed the citizenry, the Volkssturm, armed with contemporary light arms of the day.  Germans were rolled over by conquering armies, and armed though they were, the German citizens were defenseless against the invaders. Men were murdered, women were raped, children killed. Those arms meant nothing. 

 

Roman citizens were armed with the latest weapons available at the time: swords, shields, bows, spears.  Attila still rolled over and through them, the men were murdered, women were raped, children killed. Those arms meant nothing. 

 

 

I mean, sure, great empires fall.  But when they do, what happens to the people?  And what good are the paltry weapons they have against the invading barbarians? 

 

What good is that AR-15 going to do when the conquering armies occupy your town, your county, your state? 

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30 minutes ago, ColoradoHusk said:

Spare me the history lesson, but what exactly is the NEED for an average American citizen to have an AR-15 military grade weapon?  I understand that over 99% of those who own those weapons are proper gun owners, but why do they even NEED a gun like that?

 

Why do people NEED assault rifles? Well... most (all?) don't. Just like people don't NEED cars that can go faster than the speed limit, trucks when they don't haul large items, or any ridiculous item that people might buy. They want them.

 

But, for some it's reasonable. I was in the Army for 12 years and was gifted an AR-15 from a family member so I could improve my weapons qualification scores. I needed it for work. Now it just sits waiting for the next time I have a friend from overseas say they want to go to the range and shoot a gun for the first time.

 

All that being said, the only difference between an AR-15 (or any so-called assault weapon) and any standard semi-automatic hunting rifle is that assault weapons are styled after military weapons and have some combination of pistol grip, flash suppressor, telescoping stock. There really is no difference between most hunting rifles and an AR-15... we've just decided one is more dangerous because of how it looks. Kind of silly if you ask me.

 

But! If it means we can see a reduction in the number of mass shootings, let's ban the black plastic. Make more boring guns. It worked in the past, then we can start to address the real problems with our society and try to figure out why so many white males are this violent.

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14 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

An old Nebraska friend, ex-Marine, proud gun owner, and dogged Trump supporter said on Facebook this morning that he's finally willing to admit no one outside the sanctioned U.S. military should be allowed to own an AK-15. 

Thats a start.  Now he needs to contact his reps to share that - and vote accordingly.  

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2 minutes ago, Branno said:

 

Why do people NEED assault rifles? Well... most (all?) don't. Just like people don't NEED cars that can go faster than the speed limit, trucks when they don't haul large items, or any ridiculous item that people might buy. They want them.

 

But, for some it's reasonable. I was in the Army for 12 years and was gifted an AR-15 from a family member so I could improve my weapons qualification scores. I needed it for work. Now it just sits waiting for the next time I have a friend from overseas say they want to go to the range and shoot a gun for the first time.

 

All that being said, the only difference between an AR-15 (or any so-called assault weapon) and any standard semi-automatic hunting rifle is that assault weapons are styled after military weapons and have some combination of pistol grip, flash suppressor, telescoping stock. There really is no difference between most hunting rifles and an AR-15... we've just decided one is more dangerous because of how it looks. Kind of silly if you ask me.

 

But! If it means we can see a reduction in the number of mass shootings, let's ban the black plastic. Make more boring guns. It worked in the past, then we can start to address the real problems with our society and try to figure out why so many white males are this violent.

Thank you for your sincere response.  I would throw in a semi-automatic hunting rifle as something we probably don't "need".  I am sure those semi-automatic hunting rifles make it easier to kill that deer, bear, antelope, or whatever they are looking to kill, but those semi-automatic rifles aren't necessary either.

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