Branno Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, ColoradoHusk said: Thank you for your sincere response. I would throw in a semi-automatic hunting rifle as something we probably don't "need". I am sure those semi-automatic hunting rifles make it easier to kill that deer, bear, antelope, or whatever they are looking to kill, but those semi-automatic rifles aren't necessary either. Why allow rifles for hunting at all when you can use a bow? The world doesn’t NEED guns. 3 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Branno said: then we can start to address the real problems with our society and try to figure out why so many white males are this violent. I would like to see a study of what news outlets these people consume. Mandalay Bay - Stephen Paddock Pulse - Omar Saddiqui Mateen Virginia Tech - Seung-Hui Cho Sandy Hook - Adam Lanza Texas Baptist church - Devin Kelley San Bernardino Regional Center - Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik Fort Hood - Nidal Hasan Binghamton Immigrant Community Center - Jiverly Wong Washington Navy Yard - Aaron Alexis Aurora Movie Theater - James Holmes Umpqua Community College - Sean Harper-Mercer Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church - Dylann Roof Red Lake High - Jeff Weise 1 Link to comment
Landlord Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, ColoradoHusk said: Spare me the history lesson, but what exactly is the NEED for an average American citizen to have an AR-15 military grade weapon? I understand that over 99% of those who own those weapons are proper gun owners, but why do they even NEED a gun like that? The simple answer is there is no need. There is a desire, a want, because it's cool/more efficient/familiar/whatever. Okay, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with wanting things we don't need. Until that thing that we enjoy creates a culture of death, and more specifically, dead children. Then, you'd hope that collectively we can say, "Man, I kind of really like having this insane weapon capable of horrific violence and death, but as a small sacrifice and inconvenience to myself, I'm glad to give it up for a less powerful and efficient but still satisfactory death weapon, to help this issue get better by even 1%." 3 Link to comment
Kiyoat Husker Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Huskerzoo said: FFS, I tried to get ahead of this, but lets have the discussion. How many of you know what a "mental illness" is? How many of you have any notion of the statistics surrounding violent crime associated with specific diagnoses? What about the "severely mentally ill" do you know what goes into that? Do you really want to rely on 18 year olds to say someone else has "mental issues" because I can promise you even a good chunk of my master's students have no clue. Let's do a quick knowledge check before we advocate for something because I'd wager really good money that this isn't going to work out well for the side of the general consensus. I'm not going to debate the difficulties in defining mental illness, because I don't disagree with you. Somehow drafting effective legislation on that would be difficult. I was simply illustrating that on many gun control proposals, there is a large majority of Americans that hypothetically would be in favor of them. Mental Illness just happened to be the one with the highest level of support from both parties, and from gun owners and non-gun-owners. I mean, Friggin' 90%! The fact that the NRA digs its heels in on any and all gun control legislation, even (hypothetical) proposals with 90% support, was my point. I could have chosen some of the other gun control proposals with majority support from that poll, like: 1. Background checks for private sales and at gun shows = 84% in favor 2. Barring gun purchases by people on no-fly or watch lists = 83% in favor 3. Creating a federal database to track gun sales = 71% in favor, including 54% of gun owners 4. Banning assault weapons = 68% in favor, including 48% of gun owners 5. Banning high-capacity magazines = 65% in favor, including 44% of gun owners But none of these initiatives will ever see the light of day because of the NRA's influence. That was my point. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/americas-complex-relationship-with-guns/ Edited February 15, 2018 by Kiyoat Husker 2 Link to comment
commando Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 guys...settle down. now is not the time to discuss this issue. remember...it's time for thoughts and prayers. ever notice the NRA never uses just thoughts and prayers to keep any and all restrictions away? they spend $$$ getting elected officials to support them and propaganda to sway the people. here we are with over 1.5 mil people killed by guns in the US since 1968 and all we can do about it is thoughts and prayers while the NRA is gleefully dancing on all those graves. 4 Link to comment
Branno Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 33 minutes ago, knapplc said: I would like to see a study of what news outlets these people consume. Mandalay Bay - Stephen Paddock Pulse - Omar Saddiqui Mateen Virginia Tech - Seung-Hui Cho Sandy Hook - Adam Lanza Texas Baptist church - Devin Kelley San Bernardino Regional Center - Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik Fort Hood - Nidal Hasan Binghamton Immigrant Community Center - Jiverly Wong Washington Navy Yard - Aaron Alexis Aurora Movie Theater - James Holmes Umpqua Community College - Sean Harper-Mercer Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church - Dylann Roof Red Lake High - Jeff Weise I'm not sure if I get you... 1 Link to comment
LumberJackSker Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 So because the western roman empire fell to barbarians we cant restrict the types of firearms people purchase in the usa over 1500 years later because we might get invaded by terrorists? If only the romans had more thoughts and prayers. Do you think that as the barbarians where at Rome's gates the emperor was like come on guys this isn't the time to politicize the issue. 4 Link to comment
B.B. Hemingway Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 26 minutes ago, Landlord said: The simple answer is there is no need. There is a desire, a want, because it's cool/more efficient/familiar/whatever. Okay, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with wanting things we don't need. Until that thing that we enjoy creates a culture of death, and more specifically, dead children. Then, you'd hope that collectively we can say, "Man, I kind of really like having this insane weapon capable of horrific violence and death, but as a small sacrifice and inconvenience to myself, I'm glad to give it up for a less powerful and efficient but still satisfactory death weapon, to help this issue get better by even 1%." This is pretty much me at this point. I love my guns. Yes, even my semi- automatic rifles. At no point would I willingly part with ALL of my guns. Most of them serve a purpose (protection, hunting, etc). As for the semi-automatics? As long as our country doesn't fall into tyranny, I can live without them, and without regret.... 1 Link to comment
Huskerzoo Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, Kiyoat Husker said: I'm not going to debate the difficulties in defining mental illness, because I don't disagree with you. Somehow drafting effective legislation on that would be difficult. I was simply illustrating that on many gun control proposals, there is a large majority of Americans that hypothetically would be in favor of them. Mental Illness just happened to be the one with the highest level of support from both parties, and from gun owners and non-gun-owners. I mean, Friggin' 90%! The fact that the NRA digs its heels in on any and all gun control legislation, even (hypothetical) proposals with 90% support, was my point. I could have chosen some of the other gun control proposals with majority support from that poll, like: 1. Background checks for private sales and at gun shows = 84% in favor 2. Barring gun purchases by people on no-fly or watch lists = 83% in favor 3. Creating a federal database to track gun sales = 71% in favor, including 54% of gun owners 4. Banning assault weapons = 68% in favor, including 48% of gun owners 5. Banning high-capacity magazines = 65% in favor, including 44% of gun owners But none of these initiatives will ever see the light of day because of the NRA's influence. That was my point. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/americas-complex-relationship-with-guns/ I can get behind the idea that people are in support of control variables. I'm sorry for my strong reaction. There's so much stigma in mental health already that I get defensive quickly. My bad for missing the point. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 So, to me...since the only option I have is to contact my congressmen about doing something....for which I did today...all I have left to do is wonder how long till the next one. So....the Las Vegas shooting was October 1st 2017. That was almost exactly 4.5 months ago. Looking forward, that puts us at July 1st for the over/under on when the next mass shooting is of 10+ people. I'm taking bets now. Link to comment
commando Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said: So, to me...since the only option I have is to contact my congressmen about doing something....for which I did today...all I have left to do is wonder how long till the next one. So....the Las Vegas shooting was October 1st 2017. That was almost exactly 4.5 months ago. Looking forward, that puts us at July 1st for the over/under on when the next mass shooting is of 10+ people. I'm taking bets now. yes..keep it to 10 or more or this bet will be outdated by next week Edited February 15, 2018 by commando Link to comment
Kiyoat Husker Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Huskerzoo said: I can get behind the idea that people are in support of control variables. I'm sorry for my strong reaction. There's so much stigma in mental health already that I get defensive quickly. My bad for missing the point. You made a good point, though. It's easy to say "yeah, that sounds like a good idea". Then when you can't hunt anymore because you were diagnosed with depression, it doesn't seem like a good idea anymore. There is so much grey area as it relates to mental illness, psychoses, etc, that trying to predict who is going to go postal becomes a fool's errand. The gun proliferation and generally easy access is the bigger picture issue, I think. It's like the good guys/bad guys debate in gun control, or incarceration. Most people are in the grey area of that. Many fantastic people in good standing in the community, etc. have still driven a car while drunk, for example. Once they kill somebody, they immediately become a "bad guy", even though they had engaged in the same risky behavior before. Or felons that turn their life around will always carry that "scarlet letter", and will always be viewed with suspicion. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, commando said: yes..keep it to 10 or more or this bet will be outdated by next week Well, I put it at 10 because it's a nice comfortable number. Under 10....meh.....it's just a random act of violence......or a bad shot. Edited February 15, 2018 by BigRedBuster Link to comment
NM11046 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Thanks for contacting your rep BRB. I like your post but dont have the heart to +1 it. What a sad state our country is in. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, NM11046 said: Thanks for contacting your rep BRB. I like your post but dont have the heart to +1 it. What a sad state our country is in. My email to my representatives reads: Quote As a conservative independent who values my rights to legally and responsibly own guns, when are politicians going to have the guts to stand up to the NRA and gun manufacturers and actually do something? Until then, spare me the "thoughts and prayers". 5 Link to comment
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