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3 hours ago, Gage County said:

 

I forgot about the 2016 coup d etat and the civil rights abuses. A lot of extrajudicial killings during and after that coup.

 

They hate us because we tried to overthrow Erdogan. Doesn’t matter if we did or not, they all think we did.

 

I forgot how badly Obama handled the chem weapons leading up to the coup. Obama took a lot of Ls, didn't seem too important at the time.

 

Turkey was a d!(k about using their NATO airbase during the Gulf War. They vote against us in the NATO and the UN all the time. They suck but we've known that for 70 years. Regardless, Turkey withdrawing from NATO makes NATO weaker, makes us weaker. It took 10 years to fug things up, we need to stay patient and rebuild the alliance. Turkey still has interest in buy fight jets from us.

You’ve just spent a few posts detailing how they’ve really been no ally to us but then you claim they’re desperately needed in Nato and somehow it’s all Obama’s fault. Kinda all over the place here. The simple explanation is that Turkey and Erdogan have changed what they’re about. If that’s how they’re gonna be, yeah, I’ll take Sweden, Finland, Ukraine and Georgia in their place in a heartbeat.

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13 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

You’ve just spent a few posts detailing how they’ve really been no ally to us but then you claim they’re desperately needed in Nato and somehow it’s all Obama’s fault. Kinda all over the place here. The simple explanation is that Turkey and Erdogan have changed what they’re about. If that’s how they’re gonna be, yeah, I’ll take Sweden, Finland, Ukraine and Georgia in their place in a heartbeat.

Perhaps but Ukraine and Georgia are not happening any time soon. Turkey is geographically strategic as well. They know they are needed. 

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10 minutes ago, Decked said:

Perhaps but Ukraine and Georgia are not happening any time soon. Turkey is geographically strategic as well. They know they are needed. 

I’m not going to say it wouldn’t be nice to have them in NATO. But it’s really up to them and how they act. Can’t really force them to behave like a good nato member. Doesn’t matter how nice it would be if they don’t cooperate. Can’t get blood out of a turnip.

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On 1/7/2023 at 10:11 AM, Gage County said:

 

That's fine for official documents, but that isn't going to change anything in the everyday lives of Americans. We call Germany "Germany," not "Deutschland." We call Moscow "Moscow," not "Moskva."

 

This is basically Turkey asking America to respect its pronouns. :lol:

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20 hours ago, knapplc said:

That's fine for official documents, but that isn't going to change anything in the everyday lives of Americans. We call Germany "Germany," not "Deutschland." We call Moscow "Moscow," not "Moskva."

 

This is basically Turkey asking America to respect its pronouns. :lol:

 

Ackchyually... Turkiye is a better search term.

 

On 1/5/2023 at 11:17 PM, JJ Husker said:

You’ve just spent a few posts detailing how they’ve really been no ally to us but then you claim they’re desperately needed in Nato and somehow it’s all Obama’s fault. Kinda all over the place here. The simple explanation is that Turkey and Erdogan have changed what they’re about. If that’s how they’re gonna be, yeah, I’ll take Sweden, Finland, Ukraine and Georgia in their place in a heartbeat.

 

It makes no sense to throw Turkiye into Putin's arms while simultaneously trying to wrestle Ukraine and Georgia away from his grip.

 

I supported Ukraine and Georgia pathways to NATO membership. Russia has occupied Georgia since 2008. Russia has occupied Crimea since 2014 and now the war. So the reality is it isn’t going to happen anytime soon.

 

Biden is getting Turkiye's votes for Sweden and Finland. They'll leverage it for all they can, hope we get more out of than just those S/F votes.

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I blame Obama for Obama’s failure in Syria. I supported his Syrian regime change policy. His tactics and methods failed. I didn’t think it was important at the time. I can now see just how much of an impact its had not just on Syria but our relationship with Turkiye too.


I love regime change as much as Obama. He had success in Egypt. It seemed stupid to me at the time, why overthrow this weak puppet, the Suez Canal is much too important to be doing this. Then a weaker puppet showed up. Obama was all about overthrowing the Russian puppet president in Ukraine, ta da, Zelenski.

 

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