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Expanding Football Roster Has Title IX, Logistical Issues


Mavric

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As a father of a HS athlete (male) and a HS athlete (female), there are a lot of posters here who need to put themselves in the shoes of parents of student athletes as well as the athletes themselves.  Some of these comments almost make me sick and it is not like Title IX has not been around and functioning for a long time.  Men and women athletes should have the exact same opportunities, across the board, period.  End of story.  Anything less than this is unacceptable.

 

Why don't they just give John Cook more bodies?  Maybe he doesn't want them?  Maybe it is hard enough keeping scholarship players around if they are not getting the playing time.  Arbitrarily boosting numbers in another sport to "help" football is ridiculous.  It has to been done with a reason and purpose, not just throwing things out there and hoping they stick.

 

In case you missed it, Volleyball has been THE sport at UNL over the last several decades.  Ever since football got lost in the quagmire we are in, Volleyball has carried the state, carried the torch, and those ladies are unreal to go and watch.  John Cook has built a dynasty here at Nebraska and he should get anything and everything he wants.  There is NO other Volleyball program in the country that made any revenue the last few seasons except Nebraska.  That says a lot for the fans and it also says a lot about what is going on here.  Nebraska is turning into a mecca of high school and club volleyball.  Go check it out if you have not, but there are girls from Nebraska, who are going to school at D-1 Universities to play Volleyball that John does not have room for.  We have something special going on in Nebraska with Volleyball and don't lose sight of that.  

 

Until Football can be anything but a bottom feeder, lets talk up and boost up the sports which continually do what they do.  It has been a over 2 decades since the Nebraska football team has made people say WOW.  We may be going towards that again, but until it happens, NU Volleyball and the work that John Cook has done should make us all proud.  NU is a Volleyball school.

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12 minutes ago, 10_point_buck said:

Until Football can be anything but a bottom feeder, lets talk up and boost up the sports which continually do what they do.  It has been a over 2 decades since the Nebraska football team has made people say WOW.  We may be going towards that again, but until it happens, NU Volleyball and the work that John Cook has done should make us all proud.  NU is a Volleyball school.

 

The entire NCAA rule book is based around 2 sports, because with extremely few exceptions those are the only two that make money. In that sense, Nebraska football is not a bottom feeder. It makes money and a lot of it.  Women’s volleyball is doing very, very well, it eeks out a small profit in the neighborhood of 800,000 annually. It’s one of the only programs in any women’s sport to at least break even. The only other program to make a profit is men’s basketball. 

 

That’s 3 of 24 programs, with men’s basketball turning a decent profit and women’s volleyball basically just sustaining itself. The other 13 women’s sports and 8 of the 10 men’s sports have that bottom feeder to thank. They don’t exist otherwise.

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23 minutes ago, 10_point_buck said:

As a father of a HS athlete (male) and a HS athlete (female), there are a lot of posters here who need to put themselves in the shoes of parents of student athletes as well as the athletes themselves.  Some of these comments almost make me sick and it is not like Title IX has not been around and functioning for a long time.  Men and women athletes should have the exact same opportunities, across the board, period.  End of story.  Anything less than this is unacceptable.

 

Why don't they just give John Cook more bodies?  Maybe he doesn't want them?  Maybe it is hard enough keeping scholarship players around if they are not getting the playing time.  Arbitrarily boosting numbers in another sport to "help" football is ridiculous.  It has to been done with a reason and purpose, not just throwing things out there and hoping they stick.

 

In case you missed it, Volleyball has been THE sport at UNL over the last several decades.  Ever since football got lost in the quagmire we are in, Volleyball has carried the state, carried the torch, and those ladies are unreal to go and watch.  John Cook has built a dynasty here at Nebraska and he should get anything and everything he wants.  There is NO other Volleyball program in the country that made any revenue the last few seasons except Nebraska.  That says a lot for the fans and it also says a lot about what is going on here.  Nebraska is turning into a mecca of high school and club volleyball.  Go check it out if you have not, but there are girls from Nebraska, who are going to school at D-1 Universities to play Volleyball that John does not have room for.  We have something special going on in Nebraska with Volleyball and don't lose sight of that.  

 

Until Football can be anything but a bottom feeder, lets talk up and boost up the sports which continually do what they do.  It has been a over 2 decades since the Nebraska football team has made people say WOW.  We may be going towards that again, but until it happens, NU Volleyball and the work that John Cook has done should make us all proud.  NU is a Volleyball school.

Being good at football provides opportunities for all sports. Football revenue is the driving force in the athletic department and they will be smart in how the get the numbers to where they want them.  They arent just going to dump bodies on Coach Cook to feed the football program.  

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2 minutes ago, swmohusker said:

Being good at football provides opportunities for all sports. Football revenue is the driving force in the athletic department and they will be smart in how the get the numbers to where they want them.  They arent just going to dump bodies on Coach Cook to feed the football program.  

Being good or bad at football is a moot point.  If so, since we have been bad at football for going on 22 years now, how did we exist or sustain anything?  

 

Yes, football drives the revenue.  Then again, very few athletic departments in the country do not pull funds from the general fund of their Universities, the vast majority do.  Title IX does not care where the revenue comes from, as long as it is proportional to both male and female athletes as far as opportunity goes.

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2 minutes ago, 10_point_buck said:

Being good or bad at football is a moot point.  If so, since we have been bad at football for going on 22 years now, how did we exist or sustain anything?  

 

Yes, football drives the revenue.  Then again, very few athletic departments in the country do not pull funds from the general fund of their Universities, the vast majority do.  Title IX does not care where the revenue comes from, as long as it is proportional to both male and female athletes as far as opportunity goes.

Bad at football for 22 years?  Huh? Slight exaggeration.

 

There is a good article on how the football program can effect the whole university, from the time when Saban took over Bama and how it benefitted the entire school from the athletic side to the academic side.  People like to be a part of a winning program.  

 

We have sustained bc of crazy program support from being a blue blood program.  We joined the B1G bc of our football program and have a chance at more money than what would have been available if we stayed in the big 12.  We are secure in the future landscape of conference alignment bc of the weight our football program pulls.  It is the face of our department and if it is successful then every program will benefit 

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7 minutes ago, swmohusker said:

Bad at football for 22 years?  Huh? Slight exaggeration.

 

There is a good article on how the football program can effect the whole university, from the time when Saban took over Bama and how it benefitted the entire school from the athletic side to the academic side.  People like to be a part of a winning program.  

 

We have sustained bc of crazy program support from being a blue blood program.  We joined the B1G bc of our football program and have a chance at more money than what would have been available if we stayed in the big 12.  We are secure in the future landscape of conference alignment bc of the weight our football program pulls.  It is the face of our department and if it is successful then every program will benefit 

Yes, football drives the opportunities in other sports due to the revenue produced.  But, you would still need to provide equality in sports, regardless of revenue and regardless of how the football team performs.  And, do it at the same level due to Title IX.  That does not mean much more than that.  And yes, we have been a bad/lost football program for well over 2 decades now.  Championships will change my mind.  

 

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1 hour ago, brophog said:

 

The entire NCAA rule book is based around 2 sports, because with extremely few exceptions those are the only two that make money. In that sense, Nebraska football is not a bottom feeder. It makes money and a lot of it.  Women’s volleyball is doing very, very well, it eeks out a small profit in the neighborhood of 800,000 annually. It’s one of the only programs in any women’s sport to at least break even. The only other program to make a profit is men’s basketball. 

 

That’s 3 of 24 programs, with men’s basketball turning a decent profit and women’s volleyball basically just sustaining itself. The other 13 women’s sports and 8 of the 10 men’s sports have that bottom feeder to thank. They don’t exist otherwise.

Sorry to say, you are wrong.  With title IX in place, all of those "bottom feeder" sports must exist.  There is no way around it as the rules of Title IX says they have to be in place.  Equal opportunity for both men and women has to be in place or the men's programs go away (men's gymnastics at NU for example).  Title IX does not care where the funding comes from, only about the equality.  Every sport could show a loss, including football, and you would still need to have equal opportunity, as it should be.

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5 hours ago, 10_point_buck said:

Sorry to say, you are wrong.  With title IX in place, all of those "bottom feeder" sports must exist.  There is no way around it as the rules of Title IX says they have to be in place.  Equal opportunity for both men and women has to be in place or the men's programs go away (men's gymnastics at NU for example).  Title IX does not care where the funding comes from, only about the equality.  Every sport could show a loss, including football, and you would still need to have equal opportunity, as it should be.

You're not entirely correct, either. Technically, Title IX only requires equal opportunity to play and does not require institutions to offer identical sports. The notion that a men's or women's program goes away if the other does isn't really true. It could be made up for in other ways.

 

I understand where your opinion is coming from, but it's also incredibly tone deaf and unrealistic. Nebraska football is not a "bottom feeder." The success on the field has been underwhelming, but the financial value associated with it dwarfs every other sport and it always will. I'll be blunt: it matters more than volleyball. It just does. It matters more than every other single sport and the fan base, as a whole, will always treat it as such. We can talk about pubbing up volleyball, baseball or even basketball for that matter, but the reality is football is king. And it needs to be.

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16 hours ago, Enhance said:

You're not entirely correct, either. Technically, Title IX only requires equal opportunity to play and does not require institutions to offer identical sports. The notion that a men's or women's program would go away if the other did isn't really true. It could be made up for in other ways.

 

I understand where your opinion is coming from, but it's also incredibly tone deaf and unrealistic. Nebraska football is not a "bottom feeder." The success on the field has been underwhelming, but the financial value associated with it dwarfs every other sport and it always will. I'll be blunt: it matters more than volleyball. It just does. It matters more than every other single sport and the fan base, as a whole, will always treat it as such. We can talk about pubbing up volleyball, baseball or even basketball for that matter, but the reality is football is king. And it needs to be.

I never said football was not "king" when it comes to bringing in $$, we all get that.  To think that football can do anything it wants to (disregarding Title IX) is exactly what our AD said it could not do, he had to find the balance and how to do it.  It is not as simple as "just doing it" but it has to be done in a way in which the equal opportunity which Title IX implores is not discounted.  This is precisely why men's sports continue to be  dwarfed women's in colleges.  Football is a beast and even though it funds everything else (at least at NU), it does shift the balances for AD's who have to figure out a way to bring enough women's sports on board to even it out.  There are also scholarship limits which also need to be accounted for.

 

As crappy as NU football has been, yes it is still "Da Man" and people want it to succeed, it is the pulse of our state as we don't have anything close to it to hang our hats on. Just because the revenue is massive in the athletic department, it has grown substantially in all Power 5 conferences, so we are not unique there at all.  Maybe, someday, if the football team can decide to get out of its own way and actually perform on the field and be relevant on a national scale, the purse strings will really fatten up.  Until then, we are feeding off the bottom as the little brother in the Big 10.  What have we done in forever to change that?

 

 I have held season tickets now for close to 30 years for football and for close to 10 for volleyball.  What John Cook is doing not only on campus, but across the state, is incredible.  Funny how most wont recognize a legend in their midst as the football Kool Aid flows.

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It’s funny when people say we’ve been terrible, as compared to other programs.

 

We haven’t been terrible, or a dumpster fire, or a bottom feeder compared to other programs. We’ve been those things compared to our former selves. We’re ranked 36th in winning percentage since 2003.

 

It’s terrible for us. It’s not terrible in college football unless you edit the English dictionary.

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7 hours ago, 10_point_buck said:

Sorry to say, you are wrong.  With title IX in place, all of those "bottom feeder" sports must exist. 

 

No, they mustn’t. Title IX is about equality, someone still has to pay for things. The non-revenue sports at Nebraska lose 15-20 million per year. You cannot have 14 women’s sports, only one of which is self sustaining, without football’s revenue.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, brophog said:

 

No, they mustn’t. Title IX is about equality, someone still has to pay for things. The non-revenue sports at Nebraska lose 15-20 million per year. You cannot have 14 women’s sports, only one of which is self sustaining, without football’s revenue.

 

 

I think title IX is dumb. 

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40 minutes ago, Hedley Lamarr said:

I think title IX is dumb. 

 

 

My mom's high school had no women's sports when she was there. She could be in the pep club or watch from the stands. Saying you think changes should be made is fine, especially since things were different 50 years ago. Saying the entire law is "dumb" seems rather ignorant to me. Title IX has had a huge positive effect on women, not just on those who play on the college teams. I can't imagine how frustrating it would have been for me growing up if my high school didn't have women's sports. Same with Jr. High and Middle school. Title IX led to those existing.

 

Quote

In 1971–1972 there were 29,972 females participating in college athletics and in 2007–2008 there were 166,728 females participating, a 456% increase in female participation in college athletics.[39] In 1971, less than 300,000 females played in high school sports. After the law was passed many females started to get involved in sports. By 1990, eighteen years later, 1.9 million female high school students were playing sports

 

 

Title IX actually offers a lot of leeway. There are more women in college but female student athletes make up less than 50% of student athletes. Schools are able to choose this if they want: "Accommodating the interest and ability of the underrepresented sex. This prong of the test is satisfied when an institution is meeting the interests and abilities of its female students even where there are disproportionately fewer females than males participating in sports. "

 

 

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