How do you define masculinity?

[Moiraine]

Is a guy who makes $200,000/year as a computer scientist while his wife stays home but he happens to wear make up and sometimes women's clothing considered masculine?

Is a guy who is muscular and confident and protective of his wife but is a house husband considered masculine?

Just throwing some scenarios out there. Obviously there isn't one single definition. Just curious what your opinions are since I often hear men aren't manly enough anymore.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Moiraine

[JJ Husker]

Call me old fashioned but I’ll never say a man who occasionally wears women’s clothes is masculine. Also leaning that way about wearing makeup but there are a few situations where that might not affect my opinion of their masculinity.

 

I suppose there are many different ways to define masculinity and, based on your two scenarios, I sort of doubt we agree on the definition. I’m not sure how I define masculinity can necessarily be considered a good thing in many cases.

[Moiraine]

I'd still like to hear what men say. I'm not planning on arguing too much, although I might still ask questions.

 

I can see a lot of positives in the times when one person went to work and the other took care of the kids. Especially when it comes to the kids. But in modern times, I just don't see one as being a female thing and the other as being a male thing. Back 1,000+ years ago, you wouldn't send a woman out to war, because war required doing physical things like wielding a sword, and men are built better for that. Same goes with building houses, doing most of the farming, etc. So, naturally, women were the ones who did the other things like raise children and cook. It was a group effort.

 

But now we have guns, tanks, helicopters, planes, combines, tractors, cranes - which women can operate as skillfully as men. I think the blurring of the difference between men and women mostly due to modernization and less requirement for muscle to do every day things, and not some political agenda.

Also, there is nothing biological about men and women that says women should wear dresses and men should not. I think men look extremely stupid in dresses, but maybe if I was born into a society where all men wore dresses, it wouldn't look stupid to me. Also, most dresses aren't tailored to fit men well. Men can look hot in kilts. If men started wearing kilts I wouldn't mind it.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Moiraine

[RedDenver]

I honestly don't give two sh!ts what people may think about how "manly" I am or how they define masculinity. I think the entire concept is dumb.

[JJ Husker]

I sort of agree with RedDenver in that I don’t really care and don’t think it matters much what others think. But I do have some preconceived notions of what is masculine and what is not. I guess mine is more a superficial eye test thing. Like I would say for example that Arnold Schwarzenegger is masculine and Steven Tyler is not. I suppose what a man does also plays into it. So in many cases I probably view a man in a traditionally female role or job as less masculine. Flight attendant- not masculine. Hunting and fishing- masculine.  I’ve known quite a few stay at home dads and I wouldn’t classify them as not masculine simply based on that.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Knowing how to do stuff.

Lots of different stuff.  

Fixing stuff.

Assembling stuff.

Building things yourself without having to call another man.

But also not being threatened by other men who are good at what they do.

Even if they're women.

Being able to kill insects and empty mousetraps without making a big deal out of it.

Generally knowing where North, South, East and West is wherever you are. 

Good friends with both men and women. 

Physically stronger than women, because, c'mon, man....

[JJ Husker]

Good list Guy. 

And especially killing spiders. I'm the only one in my house that can handle that one.

[teachercd]

Being masculine is probably a lot like being pretty...it really depends on the other persons point of view.

[zoogs]

There is no list. Everything you put on their is inherently something that excludes other genders; i.e. here is a trait, whether it’s computer programming or   athletic prowess, that distinguishes you from women, and is a proper and exceptional expression of your own gender. There’s too much variety for us to remain focused on things like this. At the same time we can celebrate all those things and more in people, as simply human characteristics.

 

Going to go off on a tangent, but did you guys know that women were the first computer programmers? It was considered women’s work and now it’s considered something women aren’t that interested in. It’s amazing how arbitrary this all is. Another example, I think it was ... knitting? That once used to be considered a manly skill. A common thread in both cases is how men’s views (which is to say society’s) of the high skilledness of these tasks evolved (and they share similarities! Algorithms and repetition, patience and methodical approaches ...) and consequently the way they are prized and the genders to which they are associated. Such is our world.

 

[BigRedBuster]

There is nothing wrong with talking about what makes a man masculin. 

 

I agree reed with tech though. It’s somewhat in the eye of the beholder. 

 

My list would include:

 

Being confident enough in yourself to fully respect others who may not be as strong or capable as you are no matter if that’s a woman, man or child.....but,have that special “it” that can kick in when it’s needed to kill that huge spider, chop firewood or save a damsel in distress.....and still be able to French braid your daughters hair if need be. 

[Moiraine]

6 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Knowing how to do stuff.

Lots of different stuff.  

Fixing stuff.

Assembling stuff.

Building things yourself without having to call another man.

But also not being threatened by other men who are good at what they do.

Even if they're women.

Being able to kill insects and empty mousetraps without making a big deal out of it.

Generally knowing where North, South, East and West is wherever you are. 

Good friends with both men and women. 

Physically stronger than women, because, c'mon, man....

 

 

 

Made me think of some stuff. Here's a list of things I go to a man first for, some of it I'm just playing the odds on. There are women who know a lot about cars, but it's harder to find them.

Taking the lids off jars.
Taking the lids off bottles.

Car advice - any kind. Purchasing/fixing/etc.
Discussing sports (same thing as above - chances are higher that men will be interested)
Spiders

 

 

Another thought - chivalry can be convenient. I work at a place with elevators. If we all tried to exit at once it'd be kind of annoying. Kind of like a 4 way stop but without anyone knowing who arrived first. Because of the social gender differences, the guys let the women leave first every time.

 

 

One of the "manliest" things to me is a man who's confident enough in himself to wear pink.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Moiraine

[Ric Flair]

Fixing things. Making things work. Getting the job done. I see metrosexual hipster goofballs wearing weird ensembles of spandex and tight clothing and wonder what the hell they’re thinking.

 

But to me the most masculine thing is to protect, defend, and sacrifice for one’s family. The coolest guys I’ve known, including my dad and grandpa, were great examples of that. The flip side is that the poorest excuses for ‘men’ are guys who father children and then flee the scene. I have no respect for that at all.

[zoogs]

Quote

Fixing things. Making things work. Getting the job done. I see metrosexual hipster goofballs wearing weird ensembles of spandex and tight clothing and wonder what the hell they’re thinking.

 

Is it their not s#!tty clothing that convinces you they can't "get the job done", or is it that they remind you too much of women?

[NM11046]

Duct tape.

 

Seriously though, it's confidence.  Being sure enough in oneself that it doesn't matter what you're wearing, who you're talking to, the topic - that air of respectful self confidence.

 

With that definition it could be man or woman though, and I wouldn't exactly describe a confident woman as masculine.  Gonna have to think some more on this.

[Ric Flair]

19 hours ago, zoogs said:

 

Is it their not s#!tty clothing that convinces you they can't "get the job done", or is it that they remind you too much of women?

 

Guys who can get things done rarely look like transsexual prostitutes. I’ve know some plumbers, electricians, and mechanics. Not a single one wears bedazzled spandex leggings.