knapplc Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 This is going to be SUPER unscientific, and I'm anticipating being corrected on some of this stuff so have at it, but I thought it'd be interesting to take a look at the guys who were inherited by Solich, Callahan, Pelini & Riley based on players taken in the Draft. I'm always one of the first to say that college talent doesn't necessarily translate into NFL talent, especially from Osborne's recruits. Tommie Frazier and Eric Crouch are two fantastic examples. So this doesn't necessarily prove anything. There are going to be two main factors affecting a guy in the Draft: Talent & Coaching. You recruit raw talent, and you develop refined talent through coaching. Yes, I am jumping the gun a little on this and yes, I will edit it once the Draft is over. 2018 (1) BO PELINI'S FINAL PLAYERS 6th Round - Tanner Lee, QB, Jacksonville (Riley recruit) 2017 (1) MIKE RILEY'S FINAL YEAR 5th Round - Nate Gerry, S, Philadelphia 2016 (4) 3rd Round - Vincent Valentine, DT, New England 3nd Round - Maliek Collins, DT, Dallas 4th Round - Alex Lewis, OT, Baltimore 6th Round - Andy Janovich, FB, Denver 2015 (3) 2nd Round - Ameer Abdullah, RB, Detroit 2nd Round - Randy Gregory, DE, Dallas 5th Round - Kenny Bell, WR, Tampa Bay 2014 (3) BO PELINI'S FINAL YEAR 2nd Round - Stanley Jean-Baptiste, CB, New Orleans 3rd Round - Spencer Long, OG, Washington 6th Round - Quincy Enunwa, WR, New York Jets 2013 (2) 6th Round - Rex Burkhead, RB, Cincinnati 7th Round - Daimion Stafford, SS, Tennessee 2012 (4) BILL CALLAHAN'S FINAL PLAYERS 2nd Round - Lavonte David, LB, Tampa Bay (Pelini recruit) 4th Round - Jared Crick, DE, Houston 7th Round - Alfonzo Dennard, CB, New England 7th Round - Marcel Jones, OL, New Orleans 2011 (7) BILL CALLAHAN'S FINAL PLAYERS 1st Round - Prince Amukamara, CB, New York Giants 4th Round - Roy Helu Jr., RB, Washington 4th Round - Alex Henery, PK, Philadelphia 5th Round - DeJon Gomes, S, Washington 5th Round - Niles Paul, WR, Washington 6th Round - Keith Williams, OG, Pittsburgh 7th Round - Eric Hagg, S, Cleveland 2010 - (3) 1st round - Ndamukong Suh, DT, Detroit 4th round - Phillip Dillard, LB, N.Y. Giants 5th round - Larry Asante, S, Cleveland 2009 - (3) 5th round - Cody Glenn, LB, Washington 6th round - Matt Slauson, OL, New York 7th round - Lydon Murtha, OL, Detroit 2008 - (3) FRANK SOLICH'S FINAL PLAYERS 5th round - Zackary Bowman, CB, Chicago 5th round - Carl Nicks, OL, New Orleans 6th round - Bo Ruud, LB, New England 2007- (4) BILL CALLAHAN'S FINAL YEAR - FRANK SOLICH'S FINAL PLAYERS 1st round - Adam Carriker, DE, St. Louis 2nd round - Brandon Jackson, IB, Green Bay 3rd round - Stewart Bradley, LB, Philadelphia 4th round - Jay Moore, DE, San Francisco 2006- (4) 2nd round - Daniel Bullocks, S, Detroit 6th round - Sam Koch, P, Baltimore 6th round - Le Kevin Smith, DT, New England 7th round - Titus Adams, DE, New York Jets 2005- (3) 1st round - Fabian Washington, CB, Oakland 2nd round - Barrett Ruud, LB, Tampa Bay 2nd round - Josh Bullocks, S, New Orleans 3rd round - Richie Incognito, OG, St. Louis 2004- (5) 4th round - Demorrio Williams, LB, Atlanta 6th round - Jammal Lord, FS, Houston 6th round - Josh Sewell, C, Denver 7th round - Ryon Bingham, DT, San Diego 7th round - Trevor Johnson, DE, New York Jets 2003- (4) FRANK SOLICH'S FINAL YEAR 2nd round - Chris Kelsay, RE, Buffalo 4th round - DeJuan Groce, CB, St. Louis 7th round - Josh Brown, PK, Seattle 7th round - Scott Shanle, LB, St. Louis 2002- (4) TOM OSBORNE'S FINAL PLAYERS 2nd round - Toniu Fonoti, OG, San Diego 3rd round - Eric Crouch, WR, St. Louis 4th round - Keyuo Craver, CB, New Orleans 7th round - Tracey Wistrom, TE, Tampa Bay 2001- (7) TOM OSBORNE'S FINAL PLAYERS 2nd round - Kyle Vanden Bosch, RE, Arizona 2nd round - Dominic Raiola, C, Detroit 4th round - Carlos Polk, LB, San Diego 4th round - Correll Buckhalter, RB, Philadelphia 5th round - Russ Hochstein, OG, Tampa Bay 6th round - Bobby Newcombe, WR/Returns, Arizona 6th round - Dan Alexander, RB, Tennessee 2000- (3) 2nd round - Mike Brown, ROV, Chicago 3rd round - Steve Warren, DT, Green Bay 5th round - Ralph Brown, CB, New York Giants 1999 - (7) 2nd round - Mike Rucker, RE, Carolina 4th round - Joel Makovicka, RB, Arizona 4th round - Jason Wiltz, DL, New York Jets 5th round - Jay Foreman, LB, Buffalo 7th round - Chad Kelsay, LB, Pittsburgh 7th round - Kris Brown, PK, Pittsburgh 7th round - Sheldon Jackson, TE, Buffalo 1998- (6) 1st round - Grant Wistrom, DE, St. Louis 1st round - Jason Peter, DT, Carolina 3rd round - Scott Frost, QB, New York Jets 3rd round - Ahman Green, RB, Seattle 7th round - Aaron Taylor, OG, Indianapolis 7th round - Eric Warfield, DB, Kansas City 1997- (8) - TOM OSBORNE'S FINAL YEAR 1st round - Michael Booker, CB, Atlanta 2nd round - Jared Tomich, DE, New Orleans 2nd round - Mike Minter, S, Carolina 3rd round - Adam Treu, OT, Oakland 4th round - Chris Dishman, OT, Arizona 5th round - Jamel Williams, LB, Washington 5th round - Eric Stokes, FS, Seattle 7th round - Jon Hesse, LB, Jacksonville 5 Quote Link to comment
Making Chimichangas Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 What your graph showed for players drafted mirrored the overall decline of the program through those years. 1 Quote Link to comment
lo country Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Nice work. Hard to not look at the number of guys drafted correlates to better performance on the field. I guess the outlier being Cally. He could recruit. Just couldn't coach. Left Bo with quite a bit of talent......Last year and this is a good example of "low drafts" equals poor performance. Not scientific, but looks that way to me. We are short, and have been, on getting athletes and/or developing them. Had Kalu stayed at CB, IMHO he wouldve been drafted. 1 Quote Link to comment
Pwnyboy Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 The formatting is kinda bad Quote Link to comment
Making Chimichangas Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 1 hour ago, lo country said: Nice work. Hard to not look at the number of guys drafted correlates to better performance on the field. I guess the outlier being Cally. He could recruit. Just couldn't coach. Left Bo with quite a bit of talent......Last year and this is a good example of "low drafts" equals poor performance. Not scientific, but looks that way to me. We are short, and have been, on getting athletes and/or developing them. Had Kalu stayed at CB, IMHO he wouldve been drafted. This is merely my opinion, but I have stated for the longest time that "talent" (or lack thereof) was never really Nebraska's problem. Where NU literally sucked arse was in the coaching and developing of players--that's where NU has severely faltered the past 6-8 years. Look at UCF...with coaching and development they had 4 players drafted. Anyone want to make the case that UCF recruited at a high enough level the preceding 2-3 years to produce four draft picks this year? (Based off of recruiting rankings?) 4 Quote Link to comment
Moiraine Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Making Chimichangas said: Anyone want to make the case that UCF recruited at a high enough level the preceding 2-3 years to produce four draft picks this year? No. The most they ever had before this year was 4 in 2003, and they hadn't had more than 2 since 2008.This year they have a 1st rounder, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. In 2003 they had 4, 5, 7, 7. Their fans will tell you they're loaded on talent but I'm not buying that they have as close to the potential as Nebraska does. Nebraska just hasn't developed that potential. Long story short, I think it's a good sign that our players are going get a lot better and finally live up to that potential. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UCF_Knights_in_the_NFL_Draft 4 Quote Link to comment
brophog Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 48 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said: Anyone want to make the case that UCF recruited at a high enough level the preceding 2-3 years to produce four draft picks this year? (Based off of recruiting rankings?) Absolutely I'd make that case, because I know they have 4 draft picks this year (though Hughes was only there one year). Clearly, therefore, the potential was there. Remember, even if you just count 1st round draft picks, about half of them will be 3 stars or below, well within UCF's ability to recruit. 4 and 5 stars absolutely matter, but not because the other 3 star and below don't make the league, but the higher ranked kids make it at a much higher percentage. Now, if we are making the argument that Frost and his staff maximized their draft potential, that's entirely different than the statement quoted. Hughes was a P5 talent that needed a second chance after some legal trouble, and Griffin was a P5 talent with a handicap that scared bigger programs off. What both needed more than anything was a coach to believe in them, the talent was there to work with. Frankly, I'm completely tired of these recruiting arguments from the past that haven't ended in 15 years. I just don't care. I don't care which coach that isn't here recruited worse. It's a new era and Frost's blueprint to help these 4 guys get drafted fits with getting our guys drafted. Quote Link to comment
runningblind Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, brophog said: Absolutely I'd make that case, because I know they have 4 draft picks this year (though Hughes was only there one year). Clearly, therefore, the potential was there. Remember, even if you just count 1st round draft picks, about half of them will be 3 stars or below, well within UCF's ability to recruit. 4 and 5 stars absolutely matter, but not because the other 3 star and below don't make the league, but the higher ranked kids make it at a much higher percentage. Now, if we are making the argument that Frost and his staff maximized their draft potential, that's entirely different than the statement quoted. Hughes was a P5 talent that needed a second chance after some legal trouble, and Griffin was a P5 talent with a handicap that scared bigger programs off. What both needed more than anything was a coach to believe in them, the talent was there to work with. Frankly, I'm completely tired of these recruiting arguments from the past that haven't ended in 15 years. I just don't care. I don't care which coach that isn't here recruited worse. It's a new era and Frost's blueprint to help these 4 guys get drafted fits with getting our guys drafted. All I have to say is..... Word. Quote Link to comment
Making Chimichangas Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 35 minutes ago, brophog said: Absolutely I'd make that case, because I know they have 4 draft picks this year (though Hughes was only there one year). Clearly, therefore, the potential was there. Remember, even if you just count 1st round draft picks, about half of them will be 3 stars or below, well within UCF's ability to recruit. 4 and 5 stars absolutely matter, but not because the other 3 star and below don't make the league, but the higher ranked kids make it at a much higher percentage. Now, if we are making the argument that Frost and his staff maximized their draft potential, that's entirely different than the statement quoted. Hughes was a P5 talent that needed a second chance after some legal trouble, and Griffin was a P5 talent with a handicap that scared bigger programs off. What both needed more than anything was a coach to believe in them, the talent was there to work with. Frankly, I'm completely tired of these recruiting arguments from the past that haven't ended in 15 years. I just don't care. I don't care which coach that isn't here recruited worse. It's a new era and Frost's blueprint to help these 4 guys get drafted fits with getting our guys drafted. If you're tired of these "recruiting arguments" then why try and make the case? And, without realizing it, you made my point for me... Every single college football program, whether they have the #1 rated class, or the #117 rated class, recruits on potential. But.... Recruiting on potential is never, and has NEVER been the focus of recruiting rankings. Recruiting rankings are geared and stacked to favor the players most highly rated. There have been posters on this very board who have posted that any class lower than 20th is an F rated class. It is this type of dogmatic adherence to recruiting rankings as the sole determinant of success that I am talking about. Yes...recruiting great talent is important. But star rankings, team rankings, and that associated BS...doesn't mean jack squat if there's no coaching or development behind it. Put this way... Winning a conference and/or national title is a lot like making a great pot of chili. "Talent" like ground beef, is just a single ingredient. You also need... Beans = Strength & Conditioning Tomatoes = Player buy-in Salt = Effort/want And a host of other "ingredients" paprika, chili powder, cumin, pepper, garlic powder, onion powder, brown sugar, and other ingredients. Likewise, other "ingredients" are needed to make a championship team: staying healthy, lucky bounces of the ball, ref calls that go your way, attitude, belief, favorable schedule, etc. My point is, and always has been, talent is just one variable. Those who worship at the altar of star and recruiting rankings as the measure of what Nebraska needs to get back to the national elite are deluding themselves. The success of UCF this past season, and in the subsequent NFL draft, just shows that hard work, dedication, and commitment to success will get a team much farther than just recruiting rankings alone. 3 Quote Link to comment
OH HSKR FAN Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Is there anyone left on the roster who was recruited by Pelini? Quote Link to comment
I am I Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 I think now we’ll have both. Good recruiting AND great player development. Lets hope that that translates to NFL careers. Or not. Let’s just win at DONU Quote Link to comment
Making Chimichangas Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 13 minutes ago, knapplc said: On the plate, next to the bowl of chili. Insiders don't dunk the cinnamon roll into the chili - that's what the barbarians outside Nebraska, and not of the Nebraska diaspora, think. But we true Nebraskans, both those inside the borders and those holding Nebraska within their hearts wherever they may be, know where the cinnamon roll fits into the great scheme of things. There are many kinds of cinnamon rolls. There are many kinds of chili. But we, true, dyed-in-the-wool Nebraskans know that cinnamon & sugar (however mom or grandma prepared them) and chili (however dad or grandpa made them) go together. We are unique. It is this understanding of the basic laws of complementary tastes that separate us from the unwashed heathen. It is this that makes us Nebraskans. This post has the poetry of Keats and the common sense of Twain. Edit: #TooEsoteric? 2 Quote Link to comment
NUance Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 28 minutes ago, Making Chimichangas said: This post has the poetry of Keats and the common sense of Twain. Edit: #TooEsoteric? Esoteric? No. +1 Quote Link to comment
ColoradoHusk Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 55 minutes ago, OH HSKR FAN said: Is there anyone left on the roster who was recruited by Pelini? Off the top of my head, Mikale Wilbon, Tanner Farmer, and Freedom Akinmodolum (sp?) signed with Pelini. I’m not sure who else signed in the class who would be 5th year seniors. Stanley Morgan, the Davis twins, Michael Decker are 4th year guys who come to my mind who committed originally to Pelini and ended up signing in Riley’s first class in 2015. This is all off the top of my head, and after a few beers, so I am sure I am missing some guys. Quote Link to comment
Mavric Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 1 hour ago, OH HSKR FAN said: Is there anyone left on the roster who was recruited by Pelini? Most of the seniors: Wilbon, Morgan, Foster, Farmer, Stoltenberg, Newell, Akinmoladun, Young, Gifford, King, Aaron Williams. Plus some juniors: Decker, Gaylord, Davis, Davis, Neal, Lee, Anderson. Quote Link to comment
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