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knapplc

Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, has been pen tapped

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24 minutes ago, NUance said:

 

So you're saying this same investigation would be going on if Trump had lost?    

Which "investigation"? The civil cases between Trump and Daniels, or the criminal investigation into Cohen's business practices?

 

It's a pretty complicated web, but as far as these two situations are concerned, I don't think either pertain to Trump being president and people being sore losers.  Both situations were most likely brought to light because of Trump's victory and other investigations into Russian involvement, so it's possible they wouldn't be going on.  It might not have been worth it for Daniels to sue, and Cohen may have just kept flying under the radar.

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43 minutes ago, NUance said:

 

So you're saying this same investigation would be going on if Trump had lost?    

 

I think that's a question for Stormy Daniels & her attorney. This came to light because she disclosed the terms of the deal were illegal (her allegation).  She chose to do that. From there, logical questions about why a presidential candidate paid a woman a sum that would violate campaign laws were asked - as is responsible. 

 

There's overlap between this case and the Russia investigation, and that also involves logical questions that would be irresponsible not to ask.  That investigation is ongoing and there's reason to believe that it has merit beyond a "witch hunt" as Trump & Co. have put it (multiple guilty pleas and even more open indictments will do that).  Because the two investigations involve the same or similar people, there's reason for collaboration.

 

This isn't just a prurient dig into an affair by a public figure with a porn star, but even if it was only that, say a senator or someone caught sleeping with that kind of person, and combine that story with that political figure's overwhelming support from the Christian Right... that alone would make a major story. 

 

Imagine if this were Hillary Clinton. Or Barack Obama. Would it be any less of a story?

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I do find it interesting that people think any of these investigations should be stopped when the American people voted in a President in large part to "DRAIN THE SWAMP!!!"

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41 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

In fact, I would be interested in someone pointing out what part the Democrats have had in this entire investigation?

 

I haven't heard much about any Democrats for a year. It's like they've gone missing. 

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1 hour ago, NUance said:

 

So you're saying this same investigation would be going on if Trump had lost?    

Parts of it certainly would - like Manafort and Russian election interference was being investigated before the election. Obstruction of justice obviously wouldn't because Trump wouldn't have been in a position to obstruct. Also, Comey probably doesn't get fired, so the FBI and DOJ is doing the investigation without a special counsel, and there isn't the constant threat of the President firing everybody in order to stop the investigation. So a lot of what would or wouldn't have happened is path dependent.

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2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Trump having sex with a porn star and paying her off and lying about it, is pretty dang far down on the list of things he is being investigated about and the importance to the country.


However, when there have been 19 guilty pleas and 5 of those being from people on his campaign with at least one pleading guilty of "Conspiracy against the United States of America".....I'm perfectly fine supporting further investigations into how much of a slime ball crook this guy is.

we are talking about a federal crime here  - a felony -also - misrepresentation of campaign funds  - again the cover up is worse than the actual crime (the payout of the $130k)

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4 hours ago, NUance said:

 

So you're saying this same investigation would be going on if Trump had lost?    

 

I'm willing to bet it would be, some of it was started before the election.  The Russian operation to influence the election would have been investigated just as much.

 

You'd also have an angry mob of GOP leadership that would want to make sure Trump never had any sway in their party again after losing to Clinton and would be happy to kick him when he's down to keep him there.  So I'm of the opinion that while maybe no special council would have been appointed, we'd still be hearing about things like the affairs as well.

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2 minutes ago, GM_Tood said:

Should change the title of this thread as the phones were not "tapped". There was a pen register used to monitor the call logs.  Good investigative process MSNBC. 

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/3/nbc-news-corrects-michael-cohen-wiretap-story-feds/

True that it's a pen register instead of a wire-tap, but I'm not sure that changes anything about the analysis

 

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11 hours ago, GM_Tood said:

Should change the title of this thread as the phones were not "tapped". There was a pen register used to monitor the call logs.  Good investigative process MSNBC. 

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/3/nbc-news-corrects-michael-cohen-wiretap-story-feds/

 

You're right. And that's a big gaffe by NBC. A Pen Tap is a different animal than a wiretap, and has different - albeit largely similar - implications.

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18 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Parts of it certainly would - like Manafort and Russian election interference was being investigated before the election. Obstruction of justice obviously wouldn't because Trump wouldn't have been in a position to obstruct. Also, Comey probably doesn't get fired, so the FBI and DOJ is doing the investigation without a special counsel, and there isn't the constant threat of the President firing everybody in order to stop the investigation. So a lot of what would or wouldn't have happened is path dependent.

I think you're right about all of this. I've always believed that Comey didn't reveal the Manafort/Papadapolous/Russia questions surrounding the 2016 election because they thought Trump would lose and they didn't want to burn an ongoing investigation.

 

The voters deserved to know that members of his campaign were under surveillance just as much as we deserved to know about Hillary being investigated.

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Don't care that Donald Trump screwed a porn star while his wife was home with their new baby. He's Donald Trump.

 

Don't consider it a fraudulent campaign contribution, either. With everything Citizens's United legalized, this barely registers as outrage. 

 

But Donald Trump paid a woman $130,000 to keep her mouth shut, forgot to sign the contract, and now she's blabbing to the world. Then he recklessly threw his lawyer under the bus and opened himself up to a whole new world of legal trouble. 

 

He's a bad negotiator and a lousy businessman, and that's what I want his die-hard supporters to finally realize. 

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Good points, Guy. He can have sex with whomever he wants - don't care, as long as it's consensual. He can pay her to keep quiet - again, if it's a consensual agreement free of coercion, no big deal.

 

But his bungling of all of this is important. It is not the only example, but it reinforces the idea that he's not a good businessman or negotiator.  He's a slick salesman, and he's parlayed that into a gig at the White House (shockingly), but being a slick salesman is no qualification to be president. And these mounting failures prove a level of incompetence that trumps whatever talents he may have with negotiation and/or business.

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4 hours ago, knapplc said:

Good points, Guy. He can have sex with whomever he wants - don't care, as long as it's consensual. He can pay her to keep quiet - again, if it's a consensual agreement free of coercion, no big deal.

 

But his bungling of all of this is important. It is not the only example, but it reinforces the idea that he's not a good businessman or negotiator.  He's a slick salesman, and he's parlayed that into a gig at the White House (shockingly), but being a slick salesman is no qualification to be president. And these mounting failures prove a level of incompetence that trumps whatever talents he may have with negotiation and/or business.

 

This is important, too.

 

It's incredibly important to delineate Trump the salesman with Trump the businessman or negotiator. 

The former is why he a show like the Apprentice had the success it did & why he's been able to snow so many people into believing the latter in his toolset. It's also played a role into him continuing to secure funding from big banks when he's extremely leveraged already & why people believed they were getting something of value while they were getting ripped off by Trump University.

 

The latter is why he's had multiple bankruptcies and so many product lines flame out. I don't know if people really understand that the key to Trump's entire business model is licensing his name out for others to use. That's essentially the only way Trump makes money anymore. It requires no effort on his part other than being a salesman.

 

But he's got a weird, distorted sense of reality and of self, so maybe he long ago conflated the two skillsets.

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1 hour ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

It's incredibly important to delineate Trump the salesman with Trump the businessman or negotiator. 

Trump was not voted in office for his business skills.

 

"You're fired!" is not a negotiation.

 

One reason he was voted in is because he wasn't a career politician.

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