What reforms to American immigration do you support?

[NM11046]

1 hour ago, Big Red 40 said:

Lol yeah I remember some sermons from my youth where they were concerned that UPC codes were going to be the mark of the beast . Everyone would have to have one on their body or they couldn’t get anything . I’m sure paranoia and distrust would fuel backlash about an I’d card too . 

In reality we already have to use drivers licenses , social security numbers etc to get things done and most of our info is already in databases . The ID card would be not much different . (Unless you’re here illegally and can’t get one ) 

I work/interact  with hundreds of Hispanics with varying degrees of legal status , and have for years . As long as they can come here  get jobs , and live a better life they will do it . Until we make it much more difficult to live and work here illegally , the problem will persist . 

And my question is, why is it we should limit their chance at a better life and them having jobs?  Why do people feel so very strongly that we need to take those opportunities away?

 

All the data this year that I've read shows that they are helping our economy - they are taking the jobs that Americans will not - last week we just had to approve more passes because of the need for workers.

 

Edit ;  http://thehill.com/latino/389437-homeland-security-announces-additional-h-2b-visas-for-companies-at-risk-of-failure

 

[Big Red 40]

Christian Missionary Alliance church . It was mid 70s too . I thought it was nutty then but apparently still some people pushing it. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/amp

[Big Red 40]

If they want the opportunities that this country provides there are legal ways to get it . Why is it ok for them to bypass our laws and do whatever they want? 

[huKSer]

15 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

My guess...if it was white people illegally immigrating, Trump and his band on goons, and supporters wouldn't care.  It is mostly racism and xenophobia which drives our current immigration policy.  Having said that, the United States government has every right (and a civic duty) to protect our borders.  I'm not really worried about people from Mexico a d Latin America illegally immigrating if they're just trying to make their life better and more prosperous.  My concern with a lax immigration policy is terrorists using it to make it to American soil.  Cartels, for the right price, would get involved and help really bad people get into this country.  I freely admit I have no solution to the illegal immigration problem.  All I know is that looking the other way and/or pretending it isn't a problem is not smart.

 

I think its about politics.  The majority of the new citizens that vote (don't get me started on the idiot Kobach) vote Democratic.  Which is ironic because the majority Hispanic social views match the Republicans - strong family and anit-abortion.

[Moiraine]

27 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

Ok, I'll ask - what kind of church were you going to that the sermons were about UPC codes tracking people?

 

 

It's normal when the sermon is about Revelation. I heard the same thing. Non denominational. Back then they didn't have small chips, so bar codes were what people imagined from this verse:

 

 

Quote

Revelation 13:16-18 New International Version (NIV) 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

[NM11046]

I don't disagree with you Big Red, I guess I just think we make it too tough (and yes, I know there has to be vetting and we need to be careful).  

 

For instance, this last week I was speaking to a woman, a MD & PHD from Venezuela who is trying to gain citizenship here.  She and her husband (also an MD) came here to claim asylum.  She has to turn in a 600 page application once a year to keep her app in process, and currently she's spent over 50k on lawyers and etc.  She is unable to come here and work as an MD, so she's doing bench work for a hospital because she would have to go back to medical school and etc to be able to practice here, and med school is not cheap (especially not to go a second time, plus fellowship which puts an additional 3-5 years on).  At any time they can tell her that she is not approved, and she then has 2 days to go home.  2 days to close up shop at work, sell her home, sell her belongings or pack them up and get on a plane home.  Period - or she's at risk for arrest.  She then would qualify as an illegal that ICE could come after (depending on city & state of course).  That's ridiculous.  

 

The process is broken.  If she hadn't had money in the bank before coming here she'd never be able to do it according to the requirements we have.  She's earning a pittance now compared to what she is trained to do and was doing in Venezuela.  Cost of living is significantly higher here, they're having expenses that even wealthy people would find excessive (100K for just application processes?!?!?) so there's no way that people fleeing a country where they're not safe, where there's no work can do this.  When I asked her why she wants to be here, especially right now when our nation has made it so difficult to come, and has been unwelcoming.  So didn't get into details on what she was escaping from, I expect as I get to know her better I'll learn more, but she would only say that it was better than the alternative.

[Big Red 40]

I did not know things like that were happening , I deal with factory workers mostly, not professionals . The system is definitely broken . 

Between the drug cartels, government corruption , and general lawlessness in Mexico , Central and South America I’m hearing its very unsafe many places there . I don’t blame them for fleeing as I would do the same in their situation . We just need to do a better job handling the influx of people on our end . 

[Danny Bateman]

4 hours ago, Big Red 40 said:

Lol yeah I remember some sermons from my youth where they were concerned that UPC codes were going to be the mark of the beast . Everyone would have to have one on their body or they couldn’t get anything . I’m sure paranoia and distrust would fuel backlash about an I’d card too . 

In reality we already have to use drivers licenses , social security numbers etc to get things done and most of our info is already in databases . The ID card would be not much different . (Unless you’re here illegally and can’t get one ) 

I work/interact  with hundreds of Hispanics with varying degrees of legal status , and have for years . As long as they can come here  get jobs , and live a better life they will do it . Until we make it much more difficult to live and work here illegally , the problem will persist . 

 

FWIW, I don't think it's a bad idea. I just think it would run into resistance.

 

Politicians that want stricter immigration policies love to talk about E-verify. I know I heard Ted Cruz mention it quite a bit. But pushing to run everyone through that would run into resistance from employers that benefit from cheap labor. Ag workers, construction, day laborers... anybody employing large numbers of illegal workers isn't going to want to go along with it.

[GBRFAN]

2 minutes ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

FWIW, I don't think it's a bad idea. I just think it would run into resistance.

 

Politicians that want stricter immigration policies love to talk about E-verify. I know I heard Ted Cruz mention it quite a bit. But pushing to run everyone through that would run into resistance from employers that benefit from cheap labor. Ag workers, construction, day laborers... anybody employing large numbers of illegal workers isn't going to want to go along with it.

 

Are you saying these employers should have a choice?

[Danny Bateman]

2 minutes ago, GBRFAN said:

 

Are you saying these employers should have a choice?

 

No. But their sector benefits from cheap labor so obviously they're going to fight it.

Though I've always thought Americans lining up to rush off and work 10 or 12 hour days picking fruit or doing manual labor if all those jobs suddenly freed up was fairly preposterous.

[NM11046]

I'd just like to say I'm appreciating this mature, back and forth on this topic.  Thanks guys.

[GBRFAN]

22 hours ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

No. But their sector benefits from cheap labor so obviously they're going to fight it.

Though I've always thought Americans lining up to rush off and work 10 or 12 hour days picking fruit or doing manual labor if all those jobs suddenly freed up was fairly preposterous.

 

I hear you under the current conditions - however take a way some of these welfare benefits and it will be shocking how many people are willing to work and how quickly those disabled backs will become healthy.

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, GBRFAN said:

 

I hear you under the current conditions - however take a way some of these welfare benefits and it will be shocking how many people are willing to work and how quickly those disabled backs will become healthy.

I'd be interested in seeing any evidence that this is true. Because all the evidence I've seen says it's not:

Quote

Some conservative critics of federal social programs, including leading presidential candidates, are sounding an alarm that the United States is rapidly becoming an “entitlement society” in which social programs are undermining the work ethic and creating a large class of Americans who prefer to depend on government benefits rather than work.  A new CBPP analysis of budget and Census data, however, shows that more than 90 percent of the benefit dollars that entitlement and other mandatory programs[1] spend go to assist people who are elderly, seriously disabled, or members of working households — not to able-bodied, working-age Americans who choose not to work.

Also the bulk of the money goes to the middle-class, not the poor:

[Moiraine]

Some of these programs already require that you work a certain number of hours.

[GBRFAN]

9 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I'd be interested in seeing any evidence that this is true. Because all the evidence I've seen says it's not:

Also the bulk of the money goes to the middle-class, not the poor:

 

The evidence is common sense - when you give people money that is close to equal what they would make working - SOME are going to choose not to work.  

 

I'm sure 90% or even 95% of the people on welfare need and deserve all or most of that money - however removing that 5-10 % would save a lot of $$$ and would also help replace any works that had to go back to where they are legal.  Your graph showed my point - the "poor" received benefits 12% higher than their portion %.  The next two sectors were smaller than there portion.