Breakout: Ron Brown and religion

[funhusker]

5 hours ago, TGHusker said:

  Well this thread is a joy to read.

 

My reaction to Ron's hiring was gladness.  Not because he is a Christian, or because he was outspoken before but because he has had an overall positive impact on  the men he has coached - period.  AA and him were very close as athlete/coach but far away on religion.   My gut feeling is that the gay issue will be a non-issue going forward.  Times have change.  Coach Brown can and will have a positive impact on our players in the years to come.  He was a good role model.

That is all I have to say about that.

Forrest G.

 

I'm going to use this as a lesson for my kids and in my classroom.  If you make a comment at the age of 18 (I'm well aware of Ron Brown's age), in public or social media, you better be prepared to own that statement when you are 80.  Public comments need public retraction; if not, c'est la vie.

 

Times do change, a person's words don't.  Brown has not come out publicly with a different opinion since 2012, at least it hasn't been posted here.  I do think it is a good hire, pros outweigh cons by a mile in my opinion.  But until Brown says otherwise, those "cons" exist.  And are fair game.

[I am I]

Love each other. Because He first loved us 

[knapplc]

12 minutes ago, funhusker said:

I'm going to use this as a lesson for my kids and in my classroom.  If you make a comment at the age of 18 (I'm well aware of Ron Brown's age), in public or social media, you better be prepared to own that statement when you are 80.  Public comments need public retraction; if not, c'est la vie.

 

Times do change, a person's words don't.  Brown has not come out publicly with a different opinion since 2012, at least it hasn't been posted here.  I do think it is a good hire, pros outweigh cons by a mile in my opinion.  But until Brown says otherwise, those "cons" exist.  And are fair game.

 

Yep. He never apologized. Doubt he ever will.

[funhusker]

37 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Yep. He never apologized. Doubt he ever will.

And if this becomes an issue in the local press, if not nationally, his lack of apology will grow louder.  Which means the "con" (possibly the only one) will get larger and larger until it outweighs the "pros".

 

I think that is really the issue at hand.  The hiring of Ron Brown is a great hire, as long as the media doesn't latch on to his beliefs about homosexuality and demand an apology that will never come.  That will get awkward.  But, that also isn't the media's job to ignore a story.  It's the job of a manager (person doing the hiring) to avoid those stories, or at least have a solid defense prepared.

 

[Landlord]

2 hours ago, funhusker said:

Times do change, a person's words don't. 

 

This isn't a defense of Ron Brown, but I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment. Language doesn't exist in a vacuum - communication goes both ways. Words change all the time, because culture treats them differently and because they only exist in the context of how they're understood, which also changes all the time. 

 

For example, it's currently very taboo to use the word retard as a pejorative. Decades from now it will probably be common usage and be no big deal. Reason being that words like moron, idiot, imbecile, etc., used to also be medical terms to denote disability, which eventually were coopted into general, mostly meaningless insults and shifted as culture's treatment of them did.

[KingBlank]

33 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

I kind of agree with you, but then again, the amount of blowback from it is a very, very, very small sentiment almost but not entirely exclusively reserved for the tiny fraction of our fanbase who spends time on sports messageboards.

This isn't true, there is blow back from people that don't even follow the sport.  My mother for gosh sakes hasn't mentioned Husker football in 20 years until this happened. 

[Sgt Red]

5 hours ago, Making Chimichangas said:

 

I know far more about the bible than you could even imagine.  As an atheist I study and read the bible probably far more than 80% of christians do.  

 

Simply stated, and this is all I am going to say: You cannot use the bible as justification for bigotry and/or discrimination if you're going to selectively pick and choose which things to rail against.

 

The point here: if you believe being LBGTQIA is an abomination, worthy of being sent to hell for, then you better rail against the godless heathens who eat pulled pork and shrimp; because god clearly calls them detestable and an abomination as well. 

 

To the point of Ron Brown, yes he (as well as you, me, or anyone else) we all pretty much have to check our political and religious beliefs at the door when we are at work.  There is no law requiring that, but given the intensity with which those subjects can be discussed, in a work environment it is generally best to keep those types of topics out of the realm of discussion.

 

As an employee of the University of Nebraska, Ron Brown's views on certain subjects runs contrary to the policies of his employer.  Therefore, prudence would be to err on the side of caution and say nothing.

 

If Ron Brown doesn't like that, then he should return to Liberty where rampant bigotry and ignorance are not only allowed, but encouraged.

 

So f'ing done with this....I am so tired of certain religious people acting like their right to be a bigot supercedes my right to exist.

 

 

 

 

 

I can appreciate a person reading the Bible and glad to know you have done so.  I would only ask if it was to read it to argue with somebody or read it to learn.  There is a big difference in the heart regarding the two ways of reading. 

 

Due to reading it you may know the reference to Leviticus and the cutting of hair was only for the Levites to set them apart for the priesthood.  Also that this was a type and shadow of how God was setting his people apart from others and training them to be able to recognize Jesus when he came.  Thousands were converted directly after Pentecost because they were able to see how Jesus fulfilled all the Old Testament.  This of coarse causes the other people of the world to hate those who have been set apart.  A complaint is that a Christian is arrogant to claim to be saved and yet to this day is a sinner themselves.  You said a Christian uses the Bible for bigotry and hate against the alphabet soup of the sexual proclivities/genitalia identification population which is certainly not the case for a true Christian.  I recognize ignorant Christians if they are Christian at all due use the Bible as a hammer.  I hope the following will help show what should be done.

 

I wish people for all sides could understand that a real Christian points out sin because they love the persons soul.  A Christian is duty bound to point out sin in the life of another Christian as a way to help them.  They also point out sin in others as a way to show the need of Christ.  The example of a Christian helping another Christian is one of the things I have experienced before.  The love that was shown to me was that a Christian not only pointed out the sin in my life but helped me out of it.  That is where most Christians probably fail.  Many times a Christian and an unbeliever only feels an attack.

 

I had a different Christian prior to this incident point out the same sin but it was not done in a loving way.  I felt guilty about the sin but done nothing about the problem. That person only pointed out the sin and offered no remedy.  I was living with my girlfriend giving the appearance of marriage and sex before marriage even though there was not out of an agreement my now wife and I had at the time.  The loving Christian first identified several people one of us could live with and then came to me pointing out the sin and making the offer. We accepted the loving offer and lived apart for the next few months until married.  It was a true blessing because it made marriage more than just living together!  It was now a God honoring covenant between the two of us.  Many only see this type of help as an attack but the pointing out of sin is so the person will recognize sin and turn away from it.

 

The experience with the loving Christian who was bold enough to point out the sin and also offer help motivated me.  I got a bachelors degree and began studying for a Master of Divinity with original biblical languages.  I was tired of having to rely on what others thought of the Bible from its origins to the present.  I now have a Masters degree and know it for myself.  With true study, the Bible has a reasonable argument for every objection I have ever had or heard of.  Yet some of those reasonable arguments are hard for some to come to grips with such as why would a loving God allow a baby to die of cancer etc....

 

I don't plan on making further replies but I hope you now understand my position on such issues.

[Nebfanatic]

5 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

This isn't a defense of Ron Brown, but I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment. Language doesn't exist in a vacuum - communication goes both ways. Words change all the time, because culture treats them differently and because they only exist in the context of how they're understood, which also changes all the time. 

 

For example, it's currently very taboo to use the word retard as a pejorative. Decades from now it will probably be common usage and be no big deal. Reason being that words like moron, idiot, imbecile, etc., used to also be medical terms to denote disability, which eventually were coopted into general, mostly meaningless insults and shifted as culture's treatment of them did.

Doesnt make sense because the r word was used at large just a few years ago now it is not ok to say and for good reason. All through the 2000s though everything was 'retarded'. I just think we are become more aware of others so we aren't as reckless with our language as a society. It is just as easy to speak without deragatory terms in your vocabulary but some act as if its not possible to speak at all. 

[funhusker]

6 hours ago, Landlord said:

 

This isn't a defense of Ron Brown, but I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment. Language doesn't exist in a vacuum - communication goes both ways. Words change all the time, because culture treats them differently and because they only exist in the context of how they're understood, which also changes all the time. 

 

For example, it's currently very taboo to use the word retard as a pejorative. Decades from now it will probably be common usage and be no big deal. Reason being that words like moron, idiot, imbecile, etc., used to also be medical terms to denote disability, which eventually were coopted into general, mostly meaningless insults and shifted as culture's treatment of them did.

My point was Ron Brown made a public statement.  He is still alive and has the chance to retract it.  If he doesn't, we can assume he still believes it. 

 

To use your analogy of the word "retard": I used the word growing up, I'm sure (luckily not in a very public way).  But if asked today, and I actually do get on my kids at school when they say it, I would say the use of the word is inappropriate.

[Guy Chamberlin]

8 hours ago, Sgt Red said:

I can appreciate a person reading the Bible and glad to know you have done so.  I would only ask if it was to read it to argue with somebody or read it to learn.  There is a big difference in the heart regarding the two ways of reading. 

 

Due to reading it you may know the reference to Leviticus and the cutting of hair was only for the Levites to set them apart for the priesthood.  Also that this was a type and shadow of how God was setting his people apart from others and training them to be able to recognize Jesus when he came.  Thousands were converted directly after Pentecost because they were able to see how Jesus fulfilled all the Old Testament.  This of coarse causes the other people of the world to hate those who have been set apart.  A complaint is that a Christian is arrogant to claim to be saved and yet to this day is a sinner themselves.  You said a Christian uses the Bible for bigotry and hate against the alphabet soup of the sexual proclivities/genitalia identification population which is certainly not the case for a true Christian.  I recognize ignorant Christians if they are Christian at all due use the Bible as a hammer.  I hope the following will help show what should be done.

 

I wish people for all sides could understand that a real Christian points out sin because they love the persons soul.  A Christian is duty bound to point out sin in the life of another Christian as a way to help them.  They also point out sin in others as a way to show the need of Christ.  The example of a Christian helping another Christian is one of the things I have experienced before.  The love that was shown to me was that a Christian not only pointed out the sin in my life but helped me out of it.  That is where most Christians probably fail.  Many times a Christian and an unbeliever only feels an attack.

 

I had a different Christian prior to this incident point out the same sin but it was not done in a loving way.  I felt guilty about the sin but done nothing about the problem. That person only pointed out the sin and offered no remedy.  I was living with my girlfriend giving the appearance of marriage and sex before marriage even though there was not out of an agreement my now wife and I had at the time.  The loving Christian first identified several people one of us could live with and then came to me pointing out the sin and making the offer. We accepted the loving offer and lived apart for the next few months until married.  It was a true blessing because it made marriage more than just living together!  It was now a God honoring covenant between the two of us.  Many only see this type of help as an attack but the pointing out of sin is so the person will recognize sin and turn away from it.

 

The experience with the loving Christian who was bold enough to point out the sin and also offer help motivated me.  I got a bachelors degree and began studying for a Master of Divinity with original biblical languages.  I was tired of having to rely on what others thought of the Bible from its origins to the present.  I now have a Masters degree and know it for myself.  With true study, the Bible has a reasonable argument for every objection I have ever had or heard of.  Yet some of those reasonable arguments are hard for some to come to grips with such as why would a loving God allow a baby to die of cancer etc....

 

I don't plan on making further replies but I hope you now understand my position on such issues.

 

This was honest and caring and well-written and I'm glad you posted it.

 

The issue is that many people have different experiences in the complicated process of life, and the notion that they should be judged and possibly punished by a specific interpretation of a specific religion doesn't work in a free society. 

[Landlord]

Reading that novel makes me realize how weird I used to be and how goofy the heart of Christian culture is.

[ScawFraw]

I think we have forgotten about the players and the non-religious benefit of having Ron back.  I think he could be an important person in this rebuild.

[knapplc]

12 minutes ago, RedNebraskan said:

I think we have forgotten about the players and the non-religious benefit of having Ron back.  I think he could be an important person in this rebuild.

 

I don't think that's the case at all. This thread is focused on one aspect of Brown's past with the Huskers so maybe it presents a skewed view of how he'll be received. I think, much like Coach Williams after his DUI, there was lots of disappointment and justifiable concern about the exposure his continued employment with UNL could bring, but everyone recognized that he was fantastic with the Wide Receivers and with recruiting. 

 

As with Coach Williams, I think everyone posting about Coach Brown hopes for the best and is willing to let the past be the past.

[JJ Husker]

I think it is valuable for people to realize that church is not a museum for saints but rather is a hospital for sinners. Too often in these discussions I think non-Christian folk tend to assume that whenever a person speaks out on a behavior they feel is wrong that they are doing it for the wrong reasons. Sure it doesn't help that many actually do speak out for the wrong reasons, pointing out the speck in their neighbors eye while ignoring the log in their own. But knowing all that I think I know about Ron Brown I think his intentions are good, heart is in the right place, and that he is simply stating his beliefs and trying to help people rather than judge them, set them apart, or place himself above them. Having said that, it is still best if he maintains some separation between his personal beliefs and his very public employment by a state entity. I would imagine stating his address as the stadium where he worked was a mistake he won't make again. It's not an issue of segregation or silencing Christian voice but simply acting appropriately in specific situations. I think we have all probably violated that at some level at least once. Not sure why one indiscretion by a person who obviously has done so much good and has been such a good influence for so many should be a cause of concern going forward.

[knapplc]

If Ron Brown wanted to help LGBTQ people he would quietly mentor them in an environment that they know is safe for them to be who they are.

 

That is the opposite of what he did by trying to prevent discrimination protections. It is the opposite of what many dedicated professionals strive to do in the UNL Athletic Department do every day. 

 

The reason it's a concern to this day is that Coach Brown never apologized, never addressed it, and left YSU rather than meet with the local LGBTQ group or going to sensitivity training.

 

If he doesn't address it soon, with a clear and unequivocal apology, he's going to have a bad time at Nebraska. Public universities are not going to tolerate an employee who is openly anti-gay. They can't afford that baggage.