The Trump Economy

[StPaulHusker]

1 hour ago, funhusker said:

Literally the very next paragraph:

 

"In Louisiana, up to 15 percent of the oilseed crop is being plowed under or is too damaged to market, according to data analyzed by Louisiana State University staff. Crops are going to waste in parts of Mississippi and Arkansas. Grain piles, dusted by snow, sit on the ground in North and South Dakota. And in Illinois and Indiana, some farmers are struggling to protect silo bags stuffed with crops from animals."

 

I think you might be sticking a little hard to this one issue.  The issue of tilling under damaged crops, and farmers leaving in the field isn't a wide problem by itself.  But it is a symptom of a larger crisis.  That is that farmers produced way more grain than the market needs.  Like BRB said, a lot of farmers had a great crop, just nowhere to go with it.

 

As to the bolded: I would say the price of soybeans is a pretty big indication of a problem.

 

To be fair, Huskertrapper disn't mention Louisiana as a state that he has dealings with.

[Huskertrapper]

19 hours ago, funhusker said:

Literally the very next paragraph:

 

"In Louisiana, up to 15 percent of the oilseed crop is being plowed under or is too damaged to market, according to data analyzed by Louisiana State University staff. Crops are going to waste in parts of Mississippi and Arkansas. Grain piles, dusted by snow, sit on the ground in North and South Dakota. And in Illinois and Indiana, some farmers are struggling to protect silo bags stuffed with crops from animals."

 

I think you might be sticking a little hard to this one issue.  The issue of tilling under damaged crops, and farmers leaving in the field isn't a wide problem by itself.  But it is a symptom of a larger crisis.  That is that farmers produced way more grain than the market needs.  Like BRB said, a lot of farmers had a great crop, just nowhere to go with it.

 

As to the bolded: I would say the price of soybeans is a pretty big indication of a problem.

 

I can't speak of Louisiana oilseed, and I do not know what crops they are speaking of in Mississippi and Arkansas. 

 

I don't think that the grain piles dusted by snow in ND. and SD are something unusual, that happens every year.

 

The silo bags in Illinois and Indiana being damaged by animals is also something that happens every year.  I get complaint calls from farmers all the time for animals damaging silage bags around here.

 

The price of soybeans is fluid right?  Look at a graph of the 20 year average price of soybeans.  This isn't the first year that prices have been this low, or lower for beans.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Huskertrapper
added a word

[Danny Bateman]

4 hours ago, funhusker said:

Literally the very next paragraph:

 

"In Louisiana, up to 15 percent of the oilseed crop is being plowed under or is too damaged to market, according to data analyzed by Louisiana State University staff. Crops are going to waste in parts of Mississippi and Arkansas. Grain piles, dusted by snow, sit on the ground in North and South Dakota. And in Illinois and Indiana, some farmers are struggling to protect silo bags stuffed with crops from animals."

 

I think you might be sticking a little hard to this one issue.  The issue of tilling under damaged crops, and farmers leaving in the field isn't a wide problem by itself.  But it is a symptom of a larger crisis.  That is that farmers produced way more grain than the market needs.  Like BRB said, a lot of farmers had a great crop, just nowhere to go with it.

 

As to the bolded: I would say the price of soybeans is a pretty big indication of a problem.

 

 

IIRC, U.S. farmers faced a similar problem under FDR during the Great Depression. They had a massive overproduction problem stemming from increased demand to feed the Allies during WW1. They just never reduced production afterwards.

 

He solved it with the AAA by paying them for their livestock (only to slaughter them) and to not plant crops during certain years. In other words, he subsidized them to fix an overproduction problem. Kind of similar to what Trump is doing today. Only more effective, I'd argue.

 

@Huskertrapper I think the reason people aren't happy with the current situation is it seems like a massive unforced error. It was all brought about by tariffs. Is there actual evidence the trade war will improve trade or U.S. markets long-term? I know that's the justification but I haven't seen anything backing it up.

[RedDenver]

On 11/29/2018 at 10:20 AM, BigRedBuster said:

 

Fixed one thing.

It's important to remember, these companies MUST make a profit. That isn't greed from the stock holders. If they don't make tough decisions that keep them making a profit, we end up with what we had in 2010 with them on the verge of going out of business and everyone losing jobs.

They don't actually need to make a profit. Breaking even is enough to not need to fire 14,000+ workers and close factories. Is it because the stockholders don't want to invest in a company that's breaking even in the short term?

 

But there's also the question of why GM is paying so much to their executives who apparently can't even keep their business in the black during a long, strong economic period and a big tax break. I mean, how in the world do they possibly justify these bonuses (the bonus are multiple times larger than their base salary):

Quote

General Motors Co. Chairman and CEO Mary Barra was paid $21.96 million in total compensation in 2017, a 2.8 percent decrease from the $22.58 million the company paid her in 2016, to make her the highest-paid Detroit Three executive.

...

Pay for other GM executives includes:

■Chuck Stevens, executive vice president and chief financial officer: $7.1 million in total compensation, down from $7.6 million in 2016. His base salary remained flat this year at $1.1 million.

■Dan Ammann, president: $9.3 million in total compensation, down from $10.2 million the year before. His base salary remained flat at $1.45 million. GM also paid $14,690 for Ammann’s travel and $37,511 for security, about $25,000 more than it paid for Barra’s security.

■Mark Reuss, executive vice president of global product development, purchasing and supply chain: $7.7 million in total compensation, down from $8.4 million the year before. His base salary stayed the same at $1.2 million in 2017.

■Alan Batey, executive vice president and president of North America: Nearly $6 million in total compensation. His base salary was $1.03 million, up from $950,000 in 2016.

■Karl-Thomas Neumann, former executive vice president and president of Europe: $6.8 million in total compensation. His base salary was $916,936.

 

Barra, Stevens, Ammann, Reuss, Batey and Neumann all received incentive-based bonuses in 2017, which was included in their total compensation. The way the bonuses are calculated relies heavily on the company’s financial performance, with metrics for individual performance and automotive free cash flow.

 

Barra received a nearly $5 million incentive-based bonus for 2017.

 

[ZRod]

17 hours ago, RedDenver said:

They don't actually need to make a profit. Breaking even is enough to not need to fire 14,000+ workers and close factories. Is it because the stockholders don't want to invest in a company that's breaking even in the short term?

 

But there's also the question of why GM is paying so much to their executives who apparently can't even keep their business in the black during a long, strong economic period and a big tax break. I mean, how in the world do they possibly justify these bonuses (the bonus are multiple times larger than their base salary):

 

I would wager to bet anything above their base salary is a stock options. They're not being paid that much cash, and it's not like they can cash it all out immediately either.

[Moiraine]

On 11/29/2018 at 11:47 AM, Huskertrapper said:

Do any on you actually know what is going on with farms/farmers/farming, or do you just believe all this crap? 

 

No wonder this country is in the shape it is in.

 

 

Do you honestly think this country is “in the shape it’s in” because Reuters is lying to us? Where is your evidence that Reuters is lying to us? You’ve spent the whole topic questioning whether a bunch of Nebraskans and Nebraska fans are farmers or know farmers based on thinking Reuters is lying and your 1 personal anecdote of not seeing crops rotting.

 

The actual reason the country is “in the shape it’s in” (whatever that actually means) is the erosion of democracy and transformation into an oligarchy, and the current agenda to destroy trust in the media so people don’t know up from down.

[BigRedBuster]

23 hours ago, RedDenver said:

They don't actually need to make a profit. Breaking even is enough to not need to fire 14,000+ workers and close factories. Is it because the stockholders don't want to invest in a company that's breaking even in the short term?

 

But there's also the question of why GM is paying so much to their executives who apparently can't even keep their business in the black during a long, strong economic period and a big tax break. I mean, how in the world do they possibly justify these bonuses (the bonus are multiple times larger than their base salary):

 

 

 

I read this yesterday and I’m still trying to get past the bolded. 

[RedDenver]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

 

 

I read this yesterday and I’m still trying to get past the bolded. 

You should read the next sentence.

[BigRedBuster]

14 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

You should read the next sentence.

Still no. 

[RedDenver]

22 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Still no. 

Then let me ask you a question: why does a company need to make a profit as opposed to breaking even?

[BigRedBuster]

4 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Then let me ask you a question: why does a company need to make a profit as opposed to breaking even?

It’s amazing that I even need to explain it. 

 

If a company only breaks even, it will be out of business very soon. 

 

If my company never ever makes a profit, eventually it’s going to lose money and can’t jay its bills, grow, develop new customers and markets. 

 

It really isn’t that difficult of a concept. 

 

If my my company broke even this year, I would be in panic mode. 

[RedDenver]

1 minute ago, BigRedBuster said:

It’s amazing that I even need to explain it. 

 

If a company only breaks even, it will be out of business very soon. 

 

If my company never ever makes a profit, eventually it’s going to lose money and can’t jay its bills, grow, develop new customers and markets. 

 

It really isn’t that difficult of a concept. 

 

If my my company broke even this year, I would be in panic mode. 

Explain the math to me how you can't pay your bills if you're breaking even. Breaking even means you have enough to cover your bills.

[BigRedBuster]

50 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Explain the math to me how you can't pay your bills if you're breaking even. Breaking even means you have enough to cover your bills.

Fir one thing, you have to reinvest in a business or it ceases to exist. Either that comes from outside investment or what’s called retained earnings. 

 

If if you don’t make money, nobody is going to invest and you have no retained earnings. 

 

This is concept is really that puzzling to you?

[Moiraine]

If a company broke even every single year forever it'd be perfectly fine for whoever worked there.

The problem is there are recessions and other disasters.

The mega corporations don't need near as much profit as they're making, though. Especially when they're given tax breaks and subsidies and other benefits that smaller companies don't get.

[ZRod]

3 hours ago, Moiraine said:

If a company broke even every single year forever it'd be perfectly fine for whoever worked there.

The problem is there are recessions and other disasters.

The mega corporations don't need near as much profit as they're making, though. Especially when they're given tax breaks and subsidies and other benefits that smaller companies don't get.

You'd be surprised how easily you can use up a company like GM's profits. Investing in a plant for a new vehicle is close to if not more than a billion dollar deal. That's why they need to turn a profit. They made $1.1 billion last year in profit. They'll blow through that pretty quick if they put it back into product development.