The Angry Violent Right

[Landlord]

11 hours ago, OTHusker said:

Well

isnt black lives matter all about police killing black people?

i don’t remember them getting upset about   Any issues with police problems with whites 

I don’t remember the blm people getting upset about murders of young blacks men by other young black men  which seems to be the biggest danger to that demographic 

 

 

Instead of pontificating and just throwing s#!t at the wall, why don't you go look at their website and hear from themselves what they're about and what they believe?

Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism.

 

So not ALL about specifically police killing black people. Also about state sanctioned violence in general.

 

...

 

Enraged by the death of Trayvon Martin and the subsequent acquittal of his killer, George Zimmerman, and inspired by the 31-day takeover of the Florida State Capitol by POWER U and the Dream Defenders, we took to the streets. A year later, we set out together on the Black Lives Matter Freedom Ride to Ferguson, in search of justice for Mike Brown and all of those who have been torn apart by state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Forever changed, we returned home and began building the infrastructure for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, which, even in its infancy, has become a political home for many.

 

One impetus for the formation was a death at the hands of a non police officer. So, once again, not only all about police killing black people, but more of a big picture of racist practices or racism allowed or excused or exacerbated by the government.

 

...

 

Every day, we recommit to healing ourselves and each other, and to co-creating alongside comrades, allies, and family a culture where each person feels seen, heard, and supported. 

We acknowledge, respect, and celebrate differences and commonalities.

We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.

We intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting.

We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

We see ourselves as part of the global Black family, and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black people who exist in different parts of the world.

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.

We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

We cultivate an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with the capacity to lead and learn.

We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.

 

Lots and lots of stuff in here focused on a bigger picture than your guess. BLM is doing community work, doing restorative work, doing a lot of work in addition to anti state-sanctioned violence/racism work.

[OTHusker]

8 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Hmmmm......And, what would you expect him to do?

We have cops shooting unarmed people on camera in the back.  

 

The fact is, police abuse of power is an issue.  I don't care if it's black on black or white on black.  In fact, I think you might be the first person on here in a very long time that has even tried to make this a white cop killing black people issue.  It's not.  It's a "COP" killing unarmed people issue.

 

But....the Republican "narrative" is that we should support the cops 100% because they are putting their lives on the line...bla bla bla......and if you don't support the cops 100%, you are unAmerican and some form of communist who supports killing cops.

 

You still have really tried to avoid the entire issue of...why is any of this Obama's fault

I have zero problem with body cams or police accountability

if a cop is wRong prosecute them

 

ive never understood how people of a particular group supported one of their own no matter how guilty that person was 

 

Michael brown was not shot with his hands up or in the back like the blm people tried to get everyone to think

black witnesses said it wasn’t so

blm and their supporters didn’t care or apologize 

 

so yes it seems like you’ve agreed blacks do cause more than 1/2 of all murders and robberries overepresenting themselves by 300 percent but are only shot by cops at a 100 percent over represented rate

 

so this may not be as racial as many are making it out to be

 

how to solve the problem

spending trillions has only destroyed the black family 

putting more money into social and education programs? That’s been Tried

the below hasn’t been tried 

 

some very simple answers and truths

no one wants to hear about

even or especially when uttered by black people

 

[Landlord]

1 minute ago, OTHusker said:

Michael brown was not shot with his hands up or in the back like the blm people tried to get everyone to think

black witnesses said it wasn’t so

blm and their supporters didn’t care or apologize 

 

 

You're right about this.

 

Now, tell me about whether or not the Ferguson police department had a racist culture and/or racially biased practices.

[OTHusker]

You are moving the goal posts 

they wanted to burn the place down becAuse of the race baiting fury over the lie that gentle giant Michael brown was shot with his hands up and in the back

[Landlord]

Just now, OTHusker said:

You are moving the goal posts 

they wanted to burn the place down becAuse of the race baiting fury over the lie that gentle giant Michael brown was shot with his hands up and in the back

 

 

AND because of what that specific situation represented about the larger truth of racial profiling and racist policies on behalf of the Ferguson police department as a whole.

 

I'm not moving the goalposts. I'm trying to help you see that there is a wider lens to look through that shows a bigger picture than the one single mischaracterized instance.

[ZRod]

18 minutes ago, OTHusker said:

I have zero problem with body cams or police accountability

if a cop is wRong prosecute them

 

ive never understood how people of a particular group supported one of their own no matter how guilty that person was 

 

Michael brown was not shot with his hands up or in the back like the blm people tried to get everyone to think

black witnesses said it wasn’t so

blm and their supporters didn’t care or apologize 

 

so yes it seems like you’ve agreed blacks do cause more than 1/2 of all murders and robberries overepresenting themselves by 300 percent but are only shot by cops at a 100 percent over represented rate

 

so this may not be as racial as many are making it out to be

 

how to solve the problem

spending trillions has only destroyed the black family 

putting more money into social and education programs? That’s been Tried

the below hasn’t been tried 

 

some very simple answers and truths

no one wants to hear about

even or especially when uttered by black people

https://www.city-journal.org/html/black-family-40-years-lies-12872.html

Let's blame the people and their culture... Seriously?

 

Why do you think they are growing up without fathers? Are you willing to go down the hole? You're getting deeper, but you're not there yet.

[OTHusker]

6 minutes ago, ZRod said:

Let's blame the people and their culture... Seriously?

 

Why do you think they are growing up without fathers? Are you willing to go down the hole? You're getting deeper, but you're not there yet.

So people aren’t responsible for their actions

they have zero part of developing their culture ? 

[NM11046]

I think your definition of "culture" is probably what is making people, or at least several of us cringe.  Probably should spend a minute thinking about that choice ... it's pretty telling.

[Landlord]

5 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

I think your definition of "culture" is probably what is making people, or at least several of us cringe.  Probably should spend a minute thinking about that choice ... it's pretty telling.

 

 

Where has OTHusker defined culture? They haven't even typed out the word until ZRod put forth an accusation of what they were saying, I guessed based on the article linked. 

 

That's a good conversation to be had, though. No need to cringe imo - exploring ideas and explanations for why so many black/brown communities are so riddled with crime and poverty is of immense value. Especially when you look at the overwhelming success or affluence of other minority/persecuted people groups. We need to be having that conversation and we need to be having it openly with the ability and license to have 'out there' explanations and then have them proven wrong. And, as long as we can all agree that there are a lot of factors at play and nobody knows exactly what or exactly how much certain things contribute, then we should be free to explore hypotheses and hypotheticals around why. 

 

This is where using the language of victimhood can get dangerous because if you make it too much a part of your lexicon, you remove the ability to rightly and justly criticize. There are external and internal forces perpetuating the cycles of poverty/violence in poor inner city primarily black cultures. What are the best ways (there doesn't only have to be one answer or solution) to approach the problem and achieve some progress?

[ZRod]

1 hour ago, OTHusker said:

So people aren’t responsible for their actions

they have zero part of developing their culture ? 

The culture you're thinking of and the one your article is referring to are not the same thing.

 

People are responsible for their actions. They are not responsible for the circumstances they are born into. Why are they growing up without fathers? 

[Landlord]

22 minutes ago, ZRod said:

People are responsible for their actions. They are not responsible for the circumstances they are born into. Why are they growing up without fathers? 

 

In my experience these two separate things are very intimately related and idk how you can extrapolate what does or doesn't qualify as either one or the other.

[BigRedBuster]

Maybe issues like this are a good place to start. 

 

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/06/chicago-police-bosses-targeted-cops-who-exposed-corruption/

 

Quote

Two young officers began to hear rumors of a drug gang operating within the Chicago Police Department. They were skeptical at first.

 

[NM11046]

1 hour ago, Landlord said:

 

 

Where has OTHusker defined culture? They haven't even typed out the word until ZRod put forth an accusation of what they were saying, I guessed based on the article linked. 

 

That's a good conversation to be had, though. No need to cringe imo - exploring ideas and explanations for why so many black/brown communities are so riddled with crime and poverty is of immense value. Especially when you look at the overwhelming success or affluence of other minority/persecuted people groups. We need to be having that conversation and we need to be having it openly with the ability and license to have 'out there' explanations and then have them proven wrong. And, as long as we can all agree that there are a lot of factors at play and nobody knows exactly what or exactly how much certain things contribute, then we should be free to explore hypotheses and hypotheticals around why. 

 

This is where using the language of victimhood can get dangerous because if you make it too much a part of your lexicon, you remove the ability to rightly and justly criticize. There are external and internal forces perpetuating the cycles of poverty/violence in poor inner city primarily black cultures. What are the best ways (there doesn't only have to be one answer or solution) to approach the problem and achieve some progress?

Quote

So people aren’t responsible for their actions

they have zero part of developing their culture ? 

 

I think the word "culture" is being used by some of you instead of "circumstances" "situation" etc.  

 

There are a hundred different ways to say it, but by saying "culture" the implication is that if you are black/hispanic/asian/white then it's culturally historically the norm and expectation to have a single mother, not own a home, carry a gun, not go to college etc.  That's a circumstance, a situation, a status.  

 

Culture is historical over generations, and definition includes "the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group."   Would you ever say that opioid abuse and overdose is a part of the white american culture?

 

So I don't disagree that communities have patterns and issues that should be dealt with, but that has nothing to do with culture (or victimhood - I don't follow your comment above where that is mentioned).  Zero.  You can say that black dominated urban areas have higher crime rates, white rural areas have high suicide rates whatever, but that's not culture.  

[Landlord]

seems like a big argument of semantics

 

does my mom like Nascar because of the circumstances of her friends and her parents liking it, the bars having it on growing up, etc., or is that part of a culture? I'd say the answer is yes, because they sound like the same thing. 

[NM11046]

12 minutes ago, Landlord said:

seems like a big argument of semantics

 

does my mom like Nascar because of the circumstances of her friends and her parents liking it, the bars having it on growing up, etc., or is that part of a culture? I'd say the answer is yes, because they sound like the same thing. 

If you say all white people love Nascar and have for hundreds of years that's culture.  If you talk about your mom and the family liking the sport, then I'd say that's tradition.

 

I suppose it is semantics to some, but I see a huge difference and using it liberally to define a race's or nationality's traits, circumstances, issues or deficiencies is lazy.