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17 hours ago, TGHusker said:

In regards to my post above and the smiley face response, I'll provide a bit of backup to the fascist twitter post.  My comments are in RED below:

 

While of course, the list below isn't a reflection on where are as a nation now - we aren't the Germany or Italy of the 1930s but when one looks closely, one can see the seeds of it. 

The seeds of fascism can be seen in Trump's language, policies and actions.   

 

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

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Don't let the clown giving smiley's bother you - your post is right on.  The one thing that remains to be true is history repeating itself.  Sadly some people are actually stoked this is happening.

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1 hour ago, NM11046 said:

Don't let the clown giving smiley's bother you - your post is right on.  The one thing that remains to be true is history repeating itself.  Sadly some people are actually stoked this is happening.

I'm not bothered, I'm saddened.  As in any cult, the cult members don't know the depth of their deception. 

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I also think there are folks who are terribly lonely and don't know how to interact with others in a normal way, so trying to be cool and instigating people and trying to start mindless debates actually gives them some attention and something to do.  Which is another thing to be saddened by.

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Add to the above, we have this.  It is no coinscidence that the rise of racism has occurred during the time of Trump. 

He fosters it in both subtle and not so subtle ways - in policy and with his words spoken or not spoken- in action and his inaction. 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-last-hope-white-people-115816601.html

 

 

 

Quote

 

A former police chief in New Jersey who is on trial on a federal hate-crime charge after he allegedly slammed a black teenager’s head into a doorjamb, once called President Donald Trump “the last hope for white people,” according to a recording recently played for jurors.

In the 2016 recording, which federal officials shared with The New York Times, Frank Nucera Jr., the former chief, can be heard saying that Trump was the last hope because “Hillary will give it to all the minorities to get a vote. That’s the truth! I’m telling you.”

The Trump comment was surreptitiously recorded by a Police Department colleague just months before the 2016 presidential election.

The recording was played in court last week by prosecutors in an effort to show that the alleged attack in September 2016 by the former chief on a guest — an 18-year-old black man — at a Ramada Hotel in Bordentown, New Jersey, was motivated by Nucera’s “intense racial animus.”

In 2015, Nucera had told a colleague that African Americans were “like ISIS, they have no value,” according to a criminal complaint filed in U.S. District Court in New Jersey. “They should line them all up and mow ’em down,” he said, according to the complaint.

Nucera’s lawyer, Rocco Cipparone, said that his client did not commit a hate crime, although he acknowledged that Nucera made the Trump remark and has used “inappropriate language, including derogatory racial terms” in the past.

“These are embarrassing, ugly words, but if Frank Nucera did not strike this man, then the words are equally irrelevant,” Cipparone said. “It is not a crime, even for a police officer, to use that language. It’s not socially acceptable, it’s not appropriate, but it’s not criminal.”

 

 

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1 hour ago, TGHusker said:

Add to the above, we have this.  It is no coinscidence that the rise of racism has occurred during the time of Trump. 

He fosters it in both subtle and not so subtle ways - in policy and with his words spoken or not spoken- in action and his inaction. 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-last-hope-white-people-115816601.html

 

 

 

 

Honest question TG, as it's a debate I have with my parents and I can't understand where they're coming from.  How does/did the right justify the statement that "Obama made racism worse during his tenure".  I'm honestly just so flabbergasted when they say it that I often just walk away.

 

On This American Life they had a section on the Beer Summit that was super interesting, poinnt toward it as a moment when he assumed the american public was with him, and it backfired huge.

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22 hours ago, NM11046 said:

Honest question TG, as it's a debate I have with my parents and I can't understand where they're coming from.  How does/did the right justify the statement that "Obama made racism worse during his tenure".  I'm honestly just so flabbergasted when they say it that I often just walk away.

 

On This American Life they had a section on the Beer Summit that was super interesting, poinnt toward it as a moment when he assumed the american public was with him, and it backfired huge.

Here are my thoughts NM:  First off let me start by saying, I think Obama will be judged by history to be firstly a very decent human being unlike what some on other side painted him as (and unlike the current WH occupant).  Regardless of politics - agree with him or not, I think on a personal level, he will and is seen in my opinion as more Christian and charitable and moderate in personality than the one evangelicals are backing now.  With the heat on Trump now, we see his true inner 'morality' coming out.  Politically and historically, Obama will be seen as a good president -  If we look over the last 50 years - Nixon forward,  I think Obama will end up being ranked 2nd to Reagan long term.  He had to overcome a bad economy that he inherited  like Reagan did while trying to  end a war that GWB should not have started in Iraq.  Clinton had no such challenges, (he was the luckiest president since perhaps Calvin Coolidge).  GHWB will be viewed favorably also.  GWB, Carter, Nixon not so much - although despite Watergate, Nixon's star has risen over the years and Ford will be just plain forgotten. 

 

Back to the question:  Here is how I think people think he made racism worse:  1.  The Black Panthers at the Philidelphia polling location getting by without punishment.  2. His blaming the Harvard cops (beer summit not withstanding)   - all setting the stage early on.  However,  I think it revolves around these  3 issues:  

 

1.  Obama was the first AA President - Period.  Latent racism rises within too many people.  We like people to be like us.  The older generation was use to only one thing - a white president and typically 'the next in line' president.  Obama, was not only not white but he wasn't the next in line.  He came out of no where - that is true on the Dem side and the GOP side.  Hillary and McCain were the next in line.   Plus he defeated a military hero in 2008 which was unforgivable during the Iraq War.  Obama wanted to end the war.  It seemed unpatriotic.  So you have that latent racism I think we all have to fight - expecting people to be like us. 

 

2. Because Obama wasn't white (ok 50% but his identity was AA), his perspective was much different than previous presidents.  He saw long term problems associated with racial and economic injustice and that became his focus.  His focus was on fixing injustices on the economic and social levels.  Obama Care being an example as well as some of his economic fixes & affirmative action programs and emphasis.  His concern about police action as it affected inner city populations etc was another example.  It wasn't that he didn't focus on the larger issues that all presidents have to focus on, but rather he took time to focus on those things that didn't affect the white population as much. This focus, while needed, was new and I think those in the white society saw it as favoritism and promoting his race above others. This caused  'resentment' to grow.     When in fact, it was an overdue emphasis to address issues swept under the rug previously.  In Trump we see the full reaction of this 'resentment' as he has acted 100% opposite of Obama.   Also, racists took cover in the Tea Party movement.  I think the original goal of the TP was good- to stop govt bailouts and overspending and debt growing (By the way, where is the Tea Party in the high spending, debt growing era of Trump?:dunno  Just sayin - but I digress. ). However, racists wtin the TP, started to turn their vision away from the economic issues (remember the TP started on GWB's watch due to his bank bail outs) to become a machine to attack Obama and stir up racial resentment. 

 

3.  Obama had a kind of 'c$%kiness' about him.  "Elections have consequences", GOP congressmen need to go to the back of the bus, telling McCain and Ryan in the economic summit meetings to basically be quiet.  He was self assured and perhaps came across too much so.  Of course the far right praises Trump for being so over the top confident now.  But we weren't use to presidents being that direct.  Again, latent racism, I think mostly in older people,  forms an opinion that says - "Who are you to say such things?"   Obama, became more moderate as time went on.  Maybe he realized that he wasn't going to be the savior envisioned at the 2008 Dem Conv in Denver - "oceans will stop their rise, etc, etc."   The office has a way to squashing our highest dreams and goals.  I thought he was pretty c$%ky when he took office but in the end, as I note in the beginning of this thesis paper, he will be known as a very good person with a moderate personality - and dare I say in the era of Trump, A calming, self assuring personality.

 

Those of you who know me from my early days on HB, know how 'anti-Obama' I was based on policy differences.  Today I would say give me 4 more years of Obama vs 4 more years of Trump. 

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20 hours ago, NM11046 said:

How does/did the right justify the statement that "Obama made racism worse during his tenure".  I'm honestly just so flabbergasted when they say it that I often just walk away.

 

 

You can find something said by Obama during any police shooting or racially related event that is sympathetic towards the plight of poor black people. If you're a white moderate who thinks the solution to racism is to be kind and law abiding and pleasant, this is a slap in the face and reads as Obama taking the side of criminals or rioters. Even though he never condemns police and pretty much always spoke towards the overseen difficulty of their job, any legitimate criticism from Obama about racist police policies becomes an attack on cops. So on and so forth.

 

It's not hard to see how people believe Obama stoked the fires of racial tension by enabling and agreeing with the angry loud minority that cops are pigs and the world is out to get black people. 

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44 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

Here are my thoughts NM:  First off let me start by saying, I think Obama will be judged by history to be firstly a very decent human being unlike what some on other side painted him as (and unlike the current WH occupant).  Regardless of politics - agree with him or not, I think on a personal level, he will and is seen in my opinion as more Christian and charitable and moderate in personality than the one evangelicals are backing now.  With the heat on Trump now, we see his true inner 'morality' coming out.  Politically and historically, Obama will be seen as a good president -  If we look over the last 50 years - Nixon forward,  I think Obama will end up being ranked 2nd to Reagan long term.  He had to overcome a bad economy that he inherited  like Reagan did while trying to  end a war that GWB should not have started in Iraq.  Clinton had no such challenges, (he was the luckiest president since perhaps Calvin Coolidge).  GHWB will be viewed favorably also.  GWB, Carter, Nixon not so much - although despite Watergate, Nixon's star has risen over the years and Ford will be just plain forgotten. 

 

Back to the question:  Here is how I think people think he made racism worse:  1.  The Black Panthers at the Philidelphia polling location getting by without punishment.  2. His blaming the Harvard cops (beer summit not withstanding)   - all setting the stage early on.  However,  I think it revolves around these  3 issues:  

 

1.  Obama was the first AA President - Period.  Latent racism rises within too many people.  We like people to be like us.  The older generation was use to only one thing - a white president and typically 'the next in line' president.  Obama, was not only not white but he wasn't the next in line.  He came out of no where - that is true on the Dem side and the GOP side.  Hillary and McCain were the next in line.   Plus he defeated a military hero in 2008 which was unforgivable during the Iraq War.  Obama wanted to end the war.  It seemed unpatriotic.  So you have that latent racism I think we all have to fight - expecting people to be like us. 

 

2. Because Obama wasn't white (ok 50% but his identity was AA), his perspective was much different than previous presidents.  He saw long term problems associated with racial and economic injustice and that became his focus.  His focus was on fixing injustices on the economic and social levels.  Obama Care being an example as well as some of his economic fixes & affirmative action programs and emphasis.  His concern about police action as it affected inner city populations etc was another example.  It wasn't that he didn't focus on the larger issues that all presidents have to focus on, but rather he took time to focus on those things that didn't affect the white population as much. This focus, while needed, was new and I think those in the white society saw it as favoritism and promoting his race above others. This caused  'resentment' to grow.     When in fact, it was an overdue emphasis to address issues swept under the rug previously.  In Trump we see the full reaction of this 'resentment' as he has acted 100% opposite of Obama.   Also, racists took cover in the Tea Party movement.  I think the original goal of the TP was good- to stop govt bailouts and overspending and debt growing (By the way, where is the Tea Party in the high spending, debt growing era of Trump?:dunno  Just sayin - but I digress. ). However, racists wtin the TP, started to turn their vision away from the economic issues (remember the TP started on GWB's watch due to his bank bail outs) to become a machine to attack Obama and stir up racial resentment. 

 

3.  Obama had a kind of 'c$%kiness' about him.  "Elections have consequences", GOP congressmen need to go to the back of the bus, telling McCain and Ryan in the economic summit meetings to basically be quiet.  He was self assured and perhaps came across too much so.  Of course the far right praises Trump for being so over the top confident now.  But we weren't use to presidents being that direct.  Again, latent racism, I think mostly in older people,  forms an opinion that says - "Who are you to say such things?"   Obama, became more moderate as time went on.  Maybe he realized that he wasn't going to be the savior envisioned at the 2008 Dem Conv in Denver - "oceans will stop their rise, etc, etc."   The office has a way to squashing our highest dreams and goals.  I thought he was pretty c$%ky when he took office but in the end, as I note in the beginning of this thesis paper, he will be known as a very good person with a moderate personality - and dare I say in the era of Trump, A calming, self assuring personality.

 

Those of you who know me from my early days on HB, now how 'anti-Obama' I was based on policy differences.  Today I would say give me 4 more years of Obama vs 4 more years of Trump. 

So grateful for the well thought out comments TG.  Knew I could count on you!

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