The Angry Violent Right

[Moiraine]

7 minutes ago, TheSker said:

True.

 

Nor do they always turn out to be accurate.

 

 

Eh. “Who are you going to vote for?” is a lot different than “Do you like this person right now?”

[TheSker]

4 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Eh. “Who are you going to vote for?” is a lot different than “Do you like this person right now?”

Either question makes the poll as accurate as the responses given.

[knapplc]

Again, please disregard the statistics being spewed by the Trumpian "college."

 

It's the same as if we gathered data from Black Lives Matter and presented it as factual. It's biased, it's wrong, disregard it.

 

Here's an unbiased look. Also, here's an explanation for why such research is very difficult - until 2016, police didn't have to report these statistics.

 

 

 

Quote

 

We gathered data on every confirmed, line-of-duty police killing of a civilian in 2014 and 2015. Here’s what we found.

 

Of the people killed by police in 2014 and 2015, 51 percent were white, 28.1 percent were black, 19.3 percent were Latino, and 1.7 percent were Asian. The remainder came from other ethnic backgrounds.

 

Most people killed by police were white. In 2014 and 2015, white people made up about 62 percent of the U.S. population and are underrepresented in this group. Meanwhile, blacks made up 17.9 percent of the country and are dramatically overrepresented. In other words, African Americans are disproportionately more likely to be killed by police than white people. Latinos also are overrepresented in data on killings by police, making up 17.6 percent of the population but 19.3 percent of these deaths.

 

What’s more, African Americans and Latinos killed by police were, on average, younger than white people who were killed by police. African Americans killed by police were an average of 30 years old, Latinos were 31, and whites were 39.

 

Understandably, national discussion has focused on the killings by police of unarmed civilians, but fewer than 1 percent of the killings we found were of people who were unarmed. We found that 65 percent possessed a firearm during an encounter with police. The rest were armed with other weapons, such as knives, bats and so on.

 

We should note that we couldn’t always tell from news accounts and public records whether a person was armed, so these figures come from the 83 percent of officer-involved deaths in which we could.

 

We collected information about the race of people who were killed by police, but also the race of the officers. We were able to identify the race of officers in 68 percent of the cases. We found that 59.2 percent of people killed by white police officers were white; 28.2 percent of people killed by white officers were African American. Nonwhite officers were significantly more likely to kill nonwhite citizens, especially Latinos: 33.7 percent of the people killed by nonwhite officers were African American, and 32.6 percent were Latino. This disparity is probably driven by urban police departments’ efforts to deploy nonwhite officers in nonwhite neighborhoods.

 

Law enforcement officers of all races disproportionately killed African Americans.

 

Among the unarmed people for whom we have full data, 50 percent were African American, 25 percent were white and 25 percent were Latino.

 

 

[Landlord]

Deaths are only one part of that discussion also. Some of those numbers could even make total sense without racist practices or biases by police, because black and latinx people are also overrepresented in dangerous and violent communities. 

 

The whole picture of sentences, violations, percentage of people stopped/detained/etc. is also incredibly important in getting a good grip on the whole thing. 

[OTHusker]

5 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Here is what I don't get about this discussion.

 

What is it about this discussion that makes some people rail against any effort to hold police accountable for their actions?  I support our local law enforcement heavily.  But, I also expect them to do their jobs the right way.  I think you said earlier that you have been a victim of police abuse.  Why is that OK?  Shouldn't the public be speaking out about these abuses?

 

If I live in Minden and a police officer from Kearney comes in and shoots one of our unarmed teenagers in the back and it's on video, shouldn't the public rail against this?  Shouldn't there be an outcry for the police officer to be charged?

 

What is different about that than someone in the black community doing the same thing?

I’m all for cop accountability and body cams

they help the cops too from fake claims like from this naacp leader who claimed he was treated badly, berated, humiliated etc and not true at all

only thing cop was guilty of was being over the top polite and letting the guy off the hook 

what I have a problem with is the narrative that we have a lot of racist white cops who target and murder young  black males- 

that is the narrative 

 

the “problem” is trotted out as a common problem that is something all blacks should fear and rail against an oppressive racist and hate filled  police state 

 

[ZRod]

20 minutes ago, OTHusker said:

I’m all for cop accountability and body cams

they help the cops too from fake claims like from this naacp leader who claimed he was treated badly, berated, humiliated etc and not true at all

only thing cop was guilty of was being over the top polite and letting the guy off the hook 

what I have a problem with is the narrative that we have a lot of racist white cops who target and murder young  black males- 

that is the narrative 

 

the “problem” is trotted out as a common problem that is something all blacks should fear and rail against an oppressive racist and hate filled  police state 

 

That is not the narrative, unless you are gobbling up right wing propaganda.

[OTHusker]

5 hours ago, ZRod said:

That is not the narrative, unless you are gobbling up right wing propaganda.

Well

isnt black lives matter all about police killing black people?

i don’t remember them getting upset about   Any issues with police problems with whites 

I don’t remember the blm people getting upset about murders of young blacks men by other young black men  which seems to be the biggest danger to that demographic 

[Big Red 40]

And now we have an administration who cherry picks "facts" to prove their point that police brutality towards blacks is a false narrative, and doesn't exist. I think BLM may have gone  too far in spreading distrust of ALL cops especially white ones, but i think its also ridiculous that Trump and his minions spend so much time, and effort, trying to denounce the whole thing as a non issue and make it go away. .Neither extreme is helpful .

[OTHusker]

12 hours ago, knapplc said:

Again, please disregard the statistics being spewed by the Trumpian "college."

 

It's the same as if we gathered data from Black Lives Matter and presented it as factual. It's biased, it's wrong, disregard it.

 

Here's an unbiased look. Also, here's an explanation for why such research is very difficult - until 2016, police didn't have to report these statistics.

 

 

 

 

Let’s look deeper into the numbers

yes blacks are over represented compared to their white counterparts when it comes to police shootings, but why?

 

thats like saying the nba discriminates against whites because they are underrepresented compared to their ratios in the general population

we have to ask why?

 

these fbi crime stats from 2017 might help us understand

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/tables/table-43

 

blacks make up about 13 percent of our population however these fbi crime stats clearly show that blacks commit well over 50 percent of our murders and well over 50 percent of our robberies

sadly blacks  are over represented by a factor of about 300 percent when it comes to murder and robbery 

 

one could assume those that murder and rob probably have a higher chance of having a fatal interaction with police than those who do not correct?

 

the Hillsdale College article states that when we compare police interactions by race that the percentage of interactions that result in the death of blacks is actually lower than that of whites 

 

that of of course doesn’t mean all blacks are bad murderers or all whites are law abiding Lilly’s or that all policemen are great people 

there are awesome and bad people in all  races 

 

but these numbers help to explain why blacks are over represented when we look at who are shot by police 

blacks are over represented by a factor of about 100 percent there and again they are over represented by a factor of about 300 percent when it comes down to murders and robberies- violent non property crime 

 

no one is allowed to bring these facts up

if you do you stand on that third rail and are labeled the worst thing one can be called in the USA Today- a racist 

 

again body cams - good 

cop accountability- good

vilifying all cops and putting a narrative out there that the biggest danger facing young black men are cops- bad 

[NM11046]

20 hours ago, OTHusker said:

Ocs is popular in nyc

she isn’t mainstream at all

even people like Lieberman think she’s a kook 

 

if you think sanders is most popular guy out there you travel in a pretty tight enclosed circle

If you think people respect Joe Lieberman's opinion you are living in the 80's.

[NM11046]

2 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

If you think people respect Joe Lieberman's opinion you are living in the 80's.

And I think NY's opinion on politicians has kinda played out to be pretty forward thinking.  After all, they knew Trump and his shananigans best, and he only got 35% of the vote because of it.  They knew he was a lying grifter who is all bluster and no substance.  

 

Ocasio-Cortez may not be "mainstream" by your definition, but if you think her popularity is limited to NYC you're pretty sheltered.  

[ZRod]

5 hours ago, OTHusker said:

Well

isnt black lives matter all about police killing black people?

i don’t remember them getting upset about   Any issues with police problems with whites 

I don’t remember the blm people getting upset about murders of young blacks men by other young black men  which seems to be the biggest danger to that demographic 

 

53 minutes ago, OTHusker said:

Let’s look deeper into the numbers

yes blacks are over represented compared to their white counterparts when it comes to police shootings, but why?

 

thats like saying the nba discriminates against whites because they are underrepresented compared to their ratios in the general population

we have to ask why?

 

these fbi crime stats from 2017 might help us understand

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/tables/table-43

 

blacks make up about 13 percent of our population however these fbi crime stats clearly show that blacks commit well over 50 percent of our murders and well over 50 percent of our robberies

sadly blacks  are over represented by a factor of about 300 percent when it comes to murder and robbery 

 

one could assume those that murder and rob probably have a higher chance of having a fatal interaction with police than those who do not correct?

 

the Hillsdale College article states that when we compare police interactions by race that the percentage of interactions that result in the death of blacks is actually lower than that of whites 

 

that of of course doesn’t mean all blacks are bad murderers or all whites are law abiding Lilly’s or that all policemen are great people 

there are awesome and bad people in all  races 

 

but these numbers help to explain why blacks are over represented when we look at who are shot by police 

blacks are over represented by a factor of about 100 percent there and again they are over represented by a factor of about 300 percent when it comes down to murders and robberies- violent non property crime 

 

no one is allowed to bring these facts up

if you do you stand on that third rail and are labeled the worst thing one can be called in the USA Today- a racist 

 

again body cams - good 

cop accountability- good

vilifying all cops and putting a narrative out there that the biggest danger facing young black men are cops- bad 

 

The conversation has moved past BLM. Fox and Breitbart ilk would like to keep the narrative at "fry then like bacon", but it's moved far past that. 

 

It's good that you are able to see why people of color would be over represented in police shootings, but you're barley scratching the surface. Why are they more likely to be involved in crime? What change? What drove these actions? And have we done enough, or even tried to correct this imbalance. The statistics are screaming to us that something is wrong. Let's fix it.

[BigRedBuster]

15 hours ago, OTHusker said:

It is partially Obama’s fault because he chose not to diffuse the situation by presenting the truth

Hmmmm......And, what would you expect him to do?

We have cops shooting unarmed people on camera in the back.  Is he supposed to be like people I know and unquestionably only support the cops and tell people in these neighborhoods they shouldn't be upset?  What should he have said to the people from the neighborhood that Freddie Gray was from who protested?

 

The fact is, police abuse of power is an issue.  I don't care if it's black on black or white on black.  In fact, I think you might be the first person on here in a very long time that has even tried to make this a white cop killing black people issue.  It's not.  It's a "COP" killing unarmed people issue.

 

But....the Republican "narrative" is that we should support the cops 100% because they are putting their lives on the line...bla bla bla......and if you don't support the cops 100%, you are unAmerican and some form of communist who supports killing cops.

 

You still have really tried to avoid the entire issue of...why is any of this Obama's fault.  So many people are trying to make it out to be all his fault.  But, it's a pretty lame attempt.

[DevoHusker]

15 hours ago, knapplc said:

Understandably, national discussion has focused on the killings by police of unarmed civilians, but fewer than 1 percent of the killings we found were of people who were unarmed. We found that 65 percent possessed a firearm during an encounter with police. The rest were armed with other weapons, such as knives, bats and so on.

 

this is the part that is under reported...or misrepresented

 

65% had guns, and +/- 34% had other weapons when they were shot, regardless of race

[RedDenver]

1 hour ago, DevoHusker said:

 

this is the part that is under reported...or misrepresented

 

65% had guns, and +/- 34% had other weapons when they were shot, regardless of race

I'd like to see the stats of how many that were armed handled their weapon. There's a world of difference between someone who has a gun in their car and someone pointing a gun at the cops. Go check out the video of the Philandro Castille shooting to see the difference very starkly.