Defensive Issues - Who's more at fault?

[onlyHskrfaninIL]

1 minute ago, knapplc said:

 

Which backup edge players can do a better job than our current DTs?

again, they're not necessarily backups, but i named some in my previous post.  if you'd rather leave 3 DTs and gifford in there i guess we'll just have to disagree.

[knapplc]

I'm not going to bail Chinander out here, because he's had some boneheaded alignments and his blitzes are terrible.  But this is not just a Chinander problem, it's an ongoing issue of bad schemes and worse personnel.  This dates back to the era after Suh & David. 

 

We've played 70 games since Lavonte David's era.  In those 70 games, we've held opponents to 17 points or fewer 19 total times.  We won all but one of those games.

 

7 were under Bo

12 were under Riley

0 were under Frost

 

We've given up 30 or more points 31 times.  That's 44% of all games over 5 1/2 years.  We won six of those games. 

 

17 were under Riley

9 were under Bo

5 were under Frost

 

These problems have persisted for years, under different head coaches. 

 

It's likely not just the Jimmy's & Joe's, and it's likely not just the coaching. Some of it likely has to do with stuff like, for fifth-year seniors, Chinander is their fourth defensive coordinator.

 

We need a stable coaching staff, several years of solid recruiting, and guys brought in to match the system we want to run. 

[Mavric]

I hope this is geared toward giving the NW kid credit and not throwing any of our guys under the bus more than really thinking we shouldn't have done anything different.

 

 

[knapplc]

I read that as Frost giving Nagel a ton of credit, then adding in that all of Northwestern beat us.

[lo country]

6 hours ago, huskerfan333157 said:

So you're assuming we have perfect press corners on the roster that won't get beat?  Who are these amazing press corners we don't know about?  Could it be that none of our corners can play press and could get beat deep?  I guess giving up one play touchdowns all the time is okay because we are pressing! 

 

I get you want an aggressive style but every time we get aggressive they proceed to hit us with a big play 

I'm basing it off of an interview that Chin did as it relates to his defensive philosophy.  I have seen this in the CU game and not much since.  The bolded below speaks to coaching and talent....

 

“Very aggressive in bringing a fourth or a fifth rusher and playing up on people in coverage.”

 

“Either we’re going to have the personnel to get to the quarterback or I’m going to have to manufacture it,” Chinander said. “That’s my job. We’re going to get it done. I don’t know if it’s going to be we line up with four or we line up with three and do blitz packages and get there, but we’ll get there. It’s a very aggressive style.

 

https://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/husker-defensive-coordinator-erik-chinander-wants-to-build-a-blackshirt/article_b54a55f5-1955-5bc0-a65a-1584acbd326f.html

[lo country]

6 hours ago, TheSker said:

Mick is out, so who are your 5 DTs and what is the 2 deep?

I am speaking in generalities as it relates to the DL....You could bring in more DE (our old DT's in a 4-3) to put more pressure on their OL.....We could also go to a 5-2-4 look.  We have the DL for that, they offered no run threat and at least we would be hat on the LOS and maybe make a play.  IIRC, I read we were in a 3-3-5 the last drive.  While aI applaud the extra DB's (Nagel for hypesman) as I said in the game thread, Thorson is too good of a QB to be allowed to sit in the pocket. Regardless of how good your DB's are, they can not cover receivers for extended periods of time.  A 5 man rush would at least have the potential to have gotten to Thorson.  

 

As Mav posted earlier, Nagel had 402 yrds the previous  5 games and he ripped us for 220.  Can you honestly say our talent is that bad.......

 

I will never deny that I put blame on this staff for some of the miscues.

[TheSker]

3 minutes ago, lo country said:

I am speaking in generalities as it relates to the DL....You could bring in more DE (our old DT's in a 4-3) to put more pressure on their OL.....We could also go to a 5-2-4 look.  We have the DL for that, they offered no run threat and at least we would be hat on the LOS and maybe make a play.  IIRC, I read we were in a 3-3-5 the last drive.  While aI applaud the extra DB's (Nagel for hypesman) as I said in the game thread, Thorson is too good of a QB to be allowed to sit in the pocket. Regardless of how good your DB's are, they can not cover receivers for extended periods of time.  A 5 man rush would at least have the potential to have gotten to Thorson.  

 

As Mav posted earlier, Nagel had 402 yrds the previous  5 games and he ripped us for 220.  Can you honestly say our talent is that bad.......

 

I will never deny that I put blame on this staff for some of the miscues.

If you have time, listen to Frost's Monday presser from earlier today.  Ots a good listen, and Frost gives some insight.

[lo country]

2 hours ago, knapplc said:

I read that as Frost giving Nagel a ton of credit, then adding in that all of Northwestern beat us.

He also said on the overtime false start, the ball *was* supposed to be snapped, but it wasn't, and Martinez told Frost music was still playing during snap. Farmer didn't hear Martinez. Frost said center needs to be more locked in and quarterback needs to be louder.-  This is the incredibly small, minute details that have honestly cost us a game or 2 for sure........Maddening.

 

I appreciate the honesty as we are truly much closer to winning than one (I) thinks.  Just frustrating sitting on the worst start in 129 seasons....

[lo country]

Just now, TheSker said:

If you have time, listen to Frost's Monday presser from earlier today.  Ots a good listen, and Frost gives some insight.

I will.  Thanks (sincerely).  Can't listen at work.

[huskerfan333157]

2 hours ago, lo country said:

I'm basing it off of an interview that Chin did as it relates to his defensive philosophy.  I have seen this in the CU game and not much since.  The bolded below speaks to coaching and talent....

 

“Very aggressive in bringing a fourth or a fifth rusher and playing up on people in coverage.”

 

“Either we’re going to have the personnel to get to the quarterback or I’m going to have to manufacture it,” Chinander said. “That’s my job. We’re going to get it done. I don’t know if it’s going to be we line up with four or we line up with three and do blitz packages and get there, but we’ll get there. It’s a very aggressive style.

 

https://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/husker-defensive-coordinator-erik-chinander-wants-to-build-a-blackshirt/article_b54a55f5-1955-5bc0-a65a-1584acbd326f.html

And when we get aggressive our secondary gets burned.  But in your eyes, no matter the personnel we should be able to get a good blitz in with good coverage.

[3rd and long]

3 minutes ago, huskerfan333157 said:

And when we get aggressive our secondary gets burned.  But in your eyes, no matter the personnel we should be able to get a good blitz in with good coverage.

Well by all means then let’s not try anything. Because what we’re doing now is working so well. 

[lo country]

18 minutes ago, huskerfan333157 said:

And when we get aggressive our secondary gets burned.  But in your eyes, no matter the personnel we should be able to get a good blitz in with good coverage.

Nope.  In Chins eyes we should......I want to see him either use his scheme or adjust to the personnel we have.  That's the question of the OP.  If we don't have the personnel, but run his scheme and fail, who's fault is it?  His? Because he doesn't adjust or the kids because they can't run his scheme.  

 

I give you this quote again......“Either we’re going to have the personnel to get to the quarterback or I’m going to have to manufacture it,” Chinander said. “That’s my job.

Don't talk about what you want to do and not do it.  The quote above in layman terms...........I'll use talent or scheme to get to the QB.  If we are lacking in talent, then scheme to get around the lack of talent......  

 

So again, Chin thinks we should get pressure on the QB.  And playing up on people in coverage.

 

IMHO, it's a combination of players and scheme......I am not sure why some blame one and exonerate the other.  

[TheSker]

4 minutes ago, lo country said:

Nope.  In Chins eyes we should......I want to see him either use his scheme or adjust to the personnel we have.  That's the question of the OP.  If we don't have the personnel, but run his scheme and fail, who's fault is it?  His? Because he doesn't adjust or the kids because they can't run his scheme.  

 

I give you this quote again......“Either we’re going to have the personnel to get to the quarterback or I’m going to have to manufacture it,” Chinander said. “That’s my job.

Don't talk about what you want to do and not do it.  The quote above in layman terms...........I'll use talent or scheme to get to the QB.  If we are lacking in talent, then scheme to get around the lack of talent......  

 

So again, Chin thinks we should get pressure on the QB.  And playing up on people in coverage.

 

IMHO, it's a combination of players and scheme......I am not sure why some blame one and exonerate the other.  

Becoming a little bit of a broken record here.  You've posted this quote from Chins what.....half dozen times?

 

Frost has said the past few weeks that we need to get more quarterback pressure.

 

The quote is Chins philosophy and he's actually trying different things.

 

But there's a risk trade off.  

 

Our games have been mostly competitive.  We start taking unnecessary risks, the opponent pops off a couple of easy scores, and suddenly the games are not so competitive.

 

And even if Chins started trying "different" things, there's no repetitions or experience doing it.

 

I also had time to listen to the latest  DocTalk with Rob.  He referenced the UCF Auburn game and offered the thought that when talent and experience come together the scheme works fine.

 

He indicated this Husker defense lacks both.

[Mavric]

Chinander said they'd be using different players in their man-to-man calls going forward.  He mentioned Cam Taylor and Braxton Clark as well as Deontai Willimas.

[Undone]

26 minutes ago, Mavric said:

Chinander said they'd be using different players in their man-to-man calls going forward.  He mentioned Cam Taylor and Braxton Clark as well as Deontai Willimas.

If he actually does this, this is a great sign.

 

Even if it winds up not working, at least we're trying something different. I'll be watching for this.