Defensive Issues - Who's more at fault?

[The Dude]

Chinander sucked at UCF.  Coincidentally he sucks here too.

[ATS Knight]

7 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Chinander sucked at UCF.  Coincidentally he sucks here too.

 

Seconded

[In the Deed the Glory]

2 hours ago, Mavric said:

We continue to cover their slots with linebackers then screw up on crosses

This.  Makes no sense.  Why #4 from Purdue absolutely obliterated us.

[PaulCrewe]

22 minutes ago, In the Deed the Glory said:

This.  Makes no sense.  Why #4 from Purdue absolutely obliterated us.

It’s the Cozgrove/Banker super special personnel scheme that worked awesomely 

[Red Five]

Everybody in the stadium knew the ball was going to #6.  Their backup QB would stare #6 down from the snap.  So in turn we would give him free release and have a DB play 8 yards off him with a LB shading in space to his side.  Then #6 would run a route and get thrown the ball with no one w/in 5 yards when he would catch it.

[Red Five]

I will give credit to the staff for changing the scheme when they lined #6 up at RB.  First time we had Miller chase him, then after that we would have a DB run with him.

[Hayseed]

Coaching the CB's to look for the ball sure paid big dividends today......not sure why they were coached any other way??? Some of the things we've seen in the last few years make you wonder if coaches were paid to lose.

[Moiraine]

10 hours ago, Hayseed said:

Coaching the CB's to look for the ball sure paid big dividends today......not sure why they were coached any other way??? Some of the things we've seen in the last few years make you wonder if coaches were paid to lose.

 

 

No one coaches it another way. It’s just a difficult thing to do.

 

If you’re running full speed and turn to look at the QB at the wrong time, you could easily lose the WR. It’s a difficult concept to master because they have to judge when to turn based on the WR’s eyes/facial expression/maybe experience on when the ball seems like it should be getting there. I’m guessing they can glance at a QB occasionally unless the WR is very fast and they have to focus solely on keeping up.

 

At least, those are my common sense assumptions on why turning around is an issue for many CBs. People complain thinking it’s easy but we have the benefit of knowing exactly where the ball is and that it’s coming toward the player. 

 

Good CBs with good coaching figure it out, but nobody’s not coaching them to do it.

[Hayseed]

3 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

No one coaches it another way. It’s just a difficult thing to do.

 

If you’re running full speed and turn to look at the QB at the wrong time, you could easily lose the WR. It’s a difficult concept to master because they have to judge when to turn based on the WR’s eyes/facial expression/maybe experience on when the ball seems like it should be getting there. I’m guessing they can glance at a QB occasionally unless the WR is very fast and they have to focus solely on keeping up.

 

At least, those are my common sense assumptions on why turning around is an issue for many CBs. People complain thinking it’s easy but we have the benefit of knowing exactly where the ball is and that it’s coming toward the player. 

 

Good CBs with good coaching figure it out, but nobody’s not coaching them to do it.

I’m pretty sure that before the Minn game they were just faceguarding and not even trying to look.

I have no idea what their coach told them to do, it seemed like they went game after game without being corrected though. The ball hit our guy right in the back in this game, but at least he wasn’t pawing at the receiver this time and avoided the call.

But I bet the ref could’ve called a “yo mama’s so ugly” penalty on that if he wanted.

[Moiraine]

24 minutes ago, Hayseed said:

I’m pretty sure that before the Minn game they were just faceguarding and not even trying to look.

I have no idea what their coach told them to do, it seemed like they went game after game without being corrected though. The ball hit our guy right in the back in this game, but at least he wasn’t pawing at the receiver this time and avoided the call.

But I bet the ref could’ve called a “yo mama’s so ugly” penalty on that if he wanted.

 

 

I’m not arguing what they did before. I’m saying they weren’t coached not to turn around. Players aren’t always capable of doing what they’re coached.

[In the Deed the Glory]

"Not turning around to see the ball" is usually caused because you got your a$$ beat so badly early in the route that you have to fly down the field to catch up.  Now that our coverage is better and we have had a little pass rush we are in better position to turn when the receiver starts to make a play on the ball.

 

We get a pass rush only bringing 3 or 4 and this will continue to improve to where we are getting tips and INTs in every game.

[Red Five]

Here is an article about the Saints from a couple years ago echoing @Moiraine

 

It’s easy to scream that a cornerback should have turned his head as the ball was coming in, but it’s not always that easy. The ability to make a play on the ball starts with being what players call being in phase, which is another way of saying they are step-for-step with the wide receiver.

Often players will try to take a peek back at the ball to find it. If it looks like it’s going over their head, they’ll get back to the receiver and play their hands. If it’s short or isn’t perfectly placed, that’s often when opportunities come to make a play on the ball.

When that happens, the corners can feel the receiver slow down, and most receivers will put their hands out long before it arrives. Some receivers know how to disguise their hands, but that’s a trait typically only found in elite receivers like Odell Beckham Jr. and Antonio Brown. For everyone else, the hands are typically a good tell.

 

https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/sports/saints/article_bc397250-9682-11e6-aa8a-e72e462ab126.html

[Mavric]

This is what was odd about a few of the choices we made.  We were going with half a line change A LOT during the game on passing downs.  There were five or maybe six guys subbing in all at once.  So that's definitely an improvement.

 

But when they would go to a trips set, we had two linebackers on the two slot receivers in the trips.  All they did was run a simple cross and we were all screwed up.  They beat us on that for their TD right before the half and again on the WR screen that went for 70ish yards.

 

So at least we were beginning to adjust and go with better matched personnel.  Just need to take another step with it.

 

 

[Moiraine]

I'm basically at the point where I will just give Chinander a pass for this season and hope he can still learn a lot as a defensive coordinator. It is only his 3rd season, so there is a much better chance he will improve with more experience than there was that Diaco (7th year DC) or Banker (28-29th year DC) would improve.

[Undone]

I'm going to continue to analyze the play on the field and discuss what is/isn't happening. As I've said for three weeks now, the way we're using our linebackers is so anemic and our blitz packages are so inefficient that we might as well just play Nickel against every remaining opponent not named Iowa. 

 

On third & long it seriously feels like we're playing with 10 guys out there because of how terrible it is to use an undersized linebacker as a rush end with (usually) no clever blitz package there to try to pressure the quarterback.