Let's Discuss Fleshed Out Ways that Trump/GOP are Compatible or Incompatible with Christianity

[Landlord]

I just read some really frustrating s#!t and honestly it's kind of got me a bit disjointed and disappointed. This isn't a "LET'S BASH TRUMP" thread because apparently 99% of us do that in 99% of threads. Let's make it an actual discussion thread where we can, if they arise, entertain varying ideas and just let facts, reality, and common sense lead us toward a conclusion.

 

 

 

Here's a few things that seem at odds to me, to start:

 

Jesus Christ teaches non-violent resistance towards corrupt empire power. The GOP controls all three branches of government and is heavily influenced by corporate money from organizations that do things such as tax the poor and harm the planet, as well as spend twice as much money towards military might as towards social safety net programs. 

 

Jesus Christ teaches fidelity and faithful commitment with sexual/romantic integrity. Donald Trump has been divorced twice, has been unfaithful in his marriages at least four times, has tried to use the power of money to solve and hide his infidelity, speaks about women in incredibly demeaning language, has very nearly admitted past acts of sexual assault, and has been accused by 19 women of varying degrees of sexual harassment. 

 

Trump also doesn't think he has ever asked for forgiveness for his sins. 

 

Jesus Christ told a parable of the Good Samaritan, the lesson being a clear rebuke of Israel's nationalism and a call toward inclusion and viewing the dirty foreigners with the same level of love and respect you would view someone of your own 'kind'. Donald Trump called to ban all Muslims from entering America, and then tried to enact a similar type of policy. 

 

Do those seem like as obvious of incompatible contradictions to you as they do to me? Can you think of ways in which Trump or the GOP actually embody a Christian spirit of love god and your neighbor? of taking care of orphans and widows? of humility and grace and repentance and inclusion? Can you think of other ways in which they stand in direct contradiction to those things?

[Nebfanatic]

Good luck to you sincerly... 

[Moiraine]

You led me to think about something I hadn’t really thought about. According to The Bible is it a sin to ignore the sins of others? And then I started looking into rulers and there’s some stuff that seems contradictory.

 

Hosea 8:4 ESV / 18 helpful votes

They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction

 

 

Romans 13:1-14 ESV / 225 helpful votes

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Etc.

 

 

Basically, there are a bunch of verses saying all rulers are placed there by God and they should be obeyed/respected, etc. But I seem to recall there being plenty of awful rulers in The Bible. And then there’s the above verse saying that in fact there were rulers not placed by God.

 

 

[knapplc]

I feel like the people pretending Trump is a Christian don't have clue one what it means to be a Christian. And if those people go to church these days, they're the Matthew 6:5 kind of "Christian" we were warned about.  Because that verse may as well have been written specifically for Trump and his flavor of religion. 

 

Kudos to you, LL, for directly approaching this subject. It's something that needs to be addressed head on if Evangelicals are to save their souls (literally if that's your thing, metaphorically if that's your thing).

 

 

[Moiraine]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I feel like the people pretending Trump is a Christian don't have clue one what it means to be a Christian. And if those people go to church these days, they're the Matthew 6:5 kind of "Christian" we were warned about.  Because that verse may as well have been written specifically for Trump and his flavor of religion. 

 

Kudos to you, LL, for directly approaching this subject. It's something that needs to be addressed head on if Evangelicals are to save their souls (literally if that's your thing, metaphorically if that's your thing).

 

 

I’m trying to decide what supporting Trump makes a Christian. A hypocrite or a sinner (yes I know everyone is a sinner)? Is enabling the sins of others a sin in The Bible? What about looking the other way when someone’s hurting another person?

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

A hypocrite or a sinner

 

Yes. By the definition of Christ Himself. 

 

Funny. You don't see Christ quoted by some of our friendly neighborhood Trump supporters.  I wonder why that is.

 

3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

Is enabling the sins of others a sin in The Bible?

 

Yes. It is a sin of Commission.

 

3 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

What about looking the other way when someone’s hurting another person? 

 

Yes. It is a sin of Omission.

[Moiraine]

Just now, knapplc said:

 

Yes. By the definition of Christ Himself. 

 

Funny. You don't see Christ quoted by some of our friendly neighborhood Trump supporters.  I wonder why that is.

 

 

If I were a Trump supporter I might use this one to try to excuse myself:

 

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

[knapplc]

Just now, Moiraine said:

 

 

If I were a Trump supporter I might use this one to try to excuse myself:

 

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

 

And I would reply that you should read Matthew 9:4

[Landlord]

Here's another dichotomy that is confusing to me.

 

 

Jesus often spoke, in the context of Herod's kingdom underneath the 'kingdom' of the Roman Empire, about the 'kingdom of God'. He made politically charged, subversive statements about how, 'the kingdom of God is like...' He rejected earthly kingdoms built around might and talked about a new idea of kingdom that was built around love and spirit. He would heal people and tell them not to tell others what he head done because of how it would charge up people looking for a new 'king' when he was trying to do something much deeper. He often departed from crowds and rebuked his disciples for being dull and not getting it because they all kept looking forward to a small minded idea of a military messiah come to conquer their enemies. They kept settling for such an incomplete and unfulfilling idea of kingdom and winning and power and success.

 

Can someone remind me of Trump's slogan again? And the basis of his entire pattern of rhetoric?

 

 

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, Landlord said:

Jesus often spoke, in the context of Herod's kingdom underneath the 'kingdom' of the Roman Empire, about the 'kingdom of God'. He made politically charged, subversive statements about how, 'the kingdom of God is like...' He rejected earthly kingdoms built around might and talked about a new idea of kingdom that was built around love and spirit. He would heal people and tell them not to tell others what he head done because of how it would charge up people looking for a new 'king' when he was trying to do something much deeper. He often departed from crowds and rebuked his disciples for being dull and not getting it because they all kept looking forward to a small minded idea of a military messiah come to conquer their enemies. They kept settling for such an incomplete and unfulfilling idea of kingdom and winning and power and success. 

 

It's almost as if the ideal that Jesus taught, that modern-day "Christians" pretend to follow, has nothing to do with earthly things.

 

Didn't some guy once say something about camels and needles that would seem appropriate for today's so-called "Christians?"

 

But hey, I'm just some lame unbeliever who doesn't know Christ like Trump does.  Don't mind me.

[Ulty]

The Republican brand of Christianity only involves talking about abortion and denying civil rights to the LGBTQ community. Because religious freedom. All of the other stuff in Landlord's OP? That's for pansies.

[Ulty]

Regarding the good samaritan story, I always thought this sketch was funny as hell: (Sorry to detract from the serious conversation)

 

 

[Ulty]

Another disconnect between Christianity and the right is in the area of criminal justice. Even though this issue isn't always split evenly among Republicans/Democrats, the conservative side tends to favor harsh punishment as opposed to rehabilitation/reform, as well as being more in favor of the death penalty. 

 

That's not to say criminals shouldn't be punished, of course they should be held accountable. But every time a Republican candidate uses a platform of "tough on crime" or "law and order" they are talking about ramping up the severity of punishment, as opposed to other reforms that might actually help people. Not too much thought is put into redemption/grace/forgiveness, let alone the real science of recidivism and punishment. Same with the death penalty: even though it is clear that the death penalty serves no purpose in deterrence or expense, we are also forgetting the whole "thou shalt not kill" thing.

[Danny Bateman]

I think the GOP has for the most part strayed form a path of godliness to one that elevates maintaining power and influence above everything else.

 

BRB posted an article in another thread that struck a chord with me. it talked about how Trump's GOP was trying to convince everyone that in everything they've done since assuming power, culminating in Kavanaugh, "might makes right." This is a deep, deep misgiving I've had with them for a long time. I've long suspected that they care far more about getting and staying in power much more than making decisions to help people. My own faith leads me to interpret the government merely as a tool for maintaining national sovereignty but primarily helping others.

 

I don't know that the GOP as a whole really thinks that way. I think they've latched onto a handful of fairly hollow religious policy stances and designated themselves the party of the religious as a way of harvesting votes. But they've taken that title for granted and failed to actually live up to its obligations.

 

If they were actually a godly group, they wouldn't look to slash funding for Meals on Wheels or healthcare for the less well-off. They wouldn't show utter indifference to those whose lives are inexorably altered by gun violence or talk about needing better mental healthcare but never allocate funds for it. They wouldn't stand behind sexual monsters  like Roy Moore or Steve Wynn or (potentially) Kavanaugh or President Trump or attack those that suggest they shouldn't be doing so. They wouldn't find themselves almost exclusively doing the bidding of whomever can throw the most money at their re-election fund.

 

Moreso than ever before I feel the GOP is practicing a religion of exclusion rather than inclusion. The bible calls us to care for our neighbor, not attack them if they have walked a different path or hold different views than us. The party is becoming increasingly hostile to those who don't fall in line and hold the same narrow-minded views they do. But they've got power, and they're led by a man who will go after anyone who doesn't bow & kiss the ring, so they're finally feeling comfortable coming out of their shell and showing us clearly who they are. And it's horrifying if you're not a member of the team. 

 

TL;DR: The GOP is focused on worldly, selfish concerns and have (mostly) forgotten how to live the Christian values they claim to hold dear.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Weirdly enough, there is increasing bi-partisan support for prison reform. Mostly about getting minor offenders out of the very expensive-to-the-taxpayers legal system. Everybody seems willing to admit the current system isn't working, and apparently Republicans aren't worried about the soft-on-crime implications.