Let's Discuss Fleshed Out Ways that Trump/GOP are Compatible or Incompatible with Christianity

[Danny Bateman]

9 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Weirdly enough, there is increasing bi-partisan support for prison reform. Mostly about getting minor offenders out of the very expensive-to-the-taxpayers legal system. Everybody seems willing to admit the current system isn't working, and apparently Republicans aren't worried about the soft-on-crime implications.

 

FWIW I just found this on Reddit. I think you're right and it's an issue that doesn't get talked about enough, sadly. Given this is only in Florida, but seems like a big deal and hopefully a harbinger of things to come elsewhere:

 

 

[Big Red 40]

Many of the Christians I grew up with had the same type of closed minded, judgemental  attitude that Trump,  and many of the GOP leadership have . They have  decided the “right “ way to live according to the Bible,  and the preacher , and that was it . Not only were many things wrong in their eyes,  it was their duty to “Fix” the “wrongdoers “  Gays, abortion , other religions , criminals , addicts etc aren’t things that merit an honest discussion, they are simply wrong , and need to be severely punished , abolished , or be met with the  wrath of God . There is a safety to clinging to values like that, and a great fear that anything differing opinions will be the downfall of mankind . The GOP seems to prey on fears like that . 

Lastly many Christians I’ve known  thrive as followers . God , the Bible , the clergy , and authority in general are to be followed without question . Trump has done a good job of painting himself as a great  , upstanding , godly man, and strong leader who should be followed in the same way . 

Personally I’ve seen little or no evidence backing Trumps claim to Christianity,  I think it’s just another tool he uses to control his base. 

[Moiraine]

36 minutes ago, Big Red 40 said:

Many of the Christians I grew up with had the same type of closed minded, judgemental  attitude that Trump,  and many of the GOP leadership have . They have  decided the “right “ way to live according to the Bible,  and the preacher , and that was it . Not only were many things wrong in their eyes,  it was their duty to “Fix” the “wrongdoers “  Gays, abortion , other religions , criminals , addicts etc aren’t things that merit an honest discussion, they are simply wrong , and need to be severely punished , abolished , or be met with the  wrath of God . There is a safety to clinging to values like that, and a great fear that anything differing opinions will be the downfall of mankind . The GOP seems to prey on fears like that . 

Lastly many Christians I’ve known  thrive as followers . God , the Bible , the clergy , and authority in general are to be followed without question . Trump has done a good job of painting himself as a great  , upstanding , godly man, and strong leader who should be followed in the same way . 

Personally I’ve seen little or no evidence backing Trumps claim to Christianity,  I think it’s just another tool he uses to control his base. 

 

 

A large # of self-proclaimed Christians don’t understand much about what it means to be one or about their religion at all. The one thing that I agree with is people will be judged by God, but most Christians I know prefer to do the judging themselves.

 

A true Christian has no reason to fear the “downfall of mankind.” A true Christian knows that everyone sins.

 

 

Quote

Revelation 3:10 New International Version (NIV) 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.       Quote Matthew 7:1-5       1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.  2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.  3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?  4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?  5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

[knapplc]

34 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

A large # of self-proclaimed Christians don’t understand much about what it means to be one or about their religion at all. The one thing that I agree with is people will be judged by God, but most Christians I know prefer to do the judging themselves.

  

 

The Bible gives the kind of person who wants to be judgy some ammo, though.

 

Matthew 18: 15-17

 

 

Quote

 

If Your Brother Sins Against You

¹⁵ “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. ¹⁶ But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. ¹⁷ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

 

 

[Moiraine]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

The Bible gives the kind of person who wants to be judgy some ammo, though.

 

Matthew 18: 15-17

 

 

 

 

 

I see this as applying to sins that are causing harm to the judger, but I can see how it can be used by people who wanna be buttholes.

[Landlord]

18 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

I see this as applying to sins that are causing harm to the judger, but I can see how it can be used by people who wanna be buttholes.

 

 

I think this passage is actually a bit ironic, given that Matthew was a tax collector himself and Jesus had already expanded the idea of god's kingdom to include gentiles. It's followed by stuff about when people are gathered in his name that his spirit is there, and then Peter asking how many times to forgive his brother (77 times). So I think the proper tone of this is A) expounding on Deuteronomical and Levitical laws on how to deal with conflict but repackaging them inside of love/grace, and B) essentially saying, "even if they still refuse to acknowledge their wrong doing, keep loving, keep trying, keep forgiving"

[Big Red 40]

Maybe the “eye roller”should jump in and join the conversation . Cmon lets hear it 

[Moiraine]

26 minutes ago, Big Red 40 said:

Maybe the “eye roller”should jump in and join the conversation . Cmon lets hear it 

 

 

Anyone who hasn't witnessed a lot of hypocrisy around Christians is probably one of the really hypocritical ones. Christians are more guilty of it than any group I've ever belonged to, and in a way I think it's natural for followers of any religion to feel self-righteous compared to the people who don't follow. Someone eye-rolled one of my posts that was hardly controversial at all, so maybe it's a defensive fellow Christian. Who knows?

[Danny Bateman]

This is a good example of what I mentioned before.

 

The GOP fancies themselves as the party of Christians, right? But they start from a flawed premise: "Since we're the party of Christians, anything we do necessary reflects Christian values." Assuming whatever they do already passes the smell test prevents some self-reflection they truly need to do.

 

Like I'm sure Brian Kemp believes that proper election security is just synonymous with election security run by him.

 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

I dont really believe in the Christian God or hell but if He exists I can kind of see the conversation with some of these so called Christians going:

 

God: “When my children tried to escape persecution and evil and make a better life for themselves by coming to your country why did you treat them so poorly and not fight to offer them protection?”

 

Self proclaimed Christian: “Well God they broke the law of MY country and I didnt want to give them any free handouts that I never received in my life.”

 

God: “You turned your back on them now Im turning my back on you. HELL it is!”

 

Not sure how some of these politicians and even some of the “Christians” on this board will explain themselves when their time comes but I wish them all the best with that. 

[Big Red 40]

I think many Christians are willing to ignore Trumps sinful behavior, and Ungodliness,  as long as he's anti abortion, anti gay, anti Muslim etc.  Its true that the bible teaches love, forgiveness, fidelity, and all the things the OP stated, but their views on what God has told them is wrong, and the fear of those evil people overrunning their country, are more important, in many cases.

[TGHusker]

I just saw this thread and wanted to say something quick - as I don't have much time now to develop more encompassing thoughts.

 

1.  As I've posted before, the "Best thing to happen for the Republican party was the Moral Majority.  The worse thing to happen to Christianity in America, was the Moral Majority."  The MM helped the Republican party to rise to its lofty position beginning in 1980.  But what it also did, was to  galvanized Evangelical Christian voters to the party due to the one issue of abortion.  It is an important issue. I'm pro-life.  But when believers put faith in a party vs faith in their God, we end up servants of that party.  There are many other 'life' issues that believers should be concerned with - most of those issue have been addressed wt the other posts - justice, prison reform, welfare, civil rights, etc, etc.  The abortion issue has become the 'plantation' issue that has kept Republican evangelical voters tied to the plantation.    If the Dems weren't so radically opposed to pro life concerns, I think they would have seen a large move of voters in their direction.  But they have tied their horse strongly to the pro-choice position.

2.  As a Christian we have to be aware of our alliances to any party.  The Kingdom of God, The Gospel must come before party.  There is also a sector of American Christianity that is tied at the hip to the Dem party.   Neither party has the right to say "God is on our side".  We must ask the other question: "I'm on on God's side?"  What is God's side you may ask ?? I think this sums up God's side well: Micah 6:8   He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness,^[ and to walk humbly with your God?

3.  As I've mention many times before,  the Evangelical admiration of Trump is appalling to me.  In the book of Judges ch 17, a priest sells himself to a rich guy to become the guys household private priest.  The priest forsook his greater calling  - representing God to the people for  "10 shekels and an Shirt" (see sermon links below).  He was pragmatic - he'd get  his needs met and he would 'do the Lord's work'(sort of).  But it is the great compromise.  The Repub Party is now supported by a host of compromisers  - we'll align ourselves wt Trump and he'll give us what we need. In so doing, they have lost their witness to the world in hope of gaining a temporal 'salvation'.   Many of these guys and gals would be world champion 'Twister" game winners based on the contortions they make in defending their support of Trump.  While I believe that Trump may enact some policies I may agree with, I still don't need to support him as my moral leader  - I can praise the policy and not the person behind it. 

4.  Our flag & hope should be the gospel, not a party.  It is better to be true to the gospel and suffer persecution and even martyrdom than to compromise and thereby trample the gospel under our feet and remove its powerful witness to the world.  The power of the gospel isn't it's ability to win a political argument, political power, or to  even 'Christianize' a nation.  The power of the gospel is changed lives,  addicts now whole, marriages healed, suffering addressed, the hungry are feed and the naked clothed and ultimately to have saving faith even in the midst of persecution or lack.  Political power corrupts and when a distorted faith  is tied to political power, it not only corrupts but it manipulates and enslaves. 

 

Here are a couple links to a sermon I heard in the 1970s(and still have on cassette tape - yes I'm that old) on 10 Shekels and a Shirt.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=8130754917

http://www.heavenreigns.com/pdf/ten_shekels.pdf

[BigRedBuster]

TG. glad you said something quick. 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

3 hours ago, TGHusker said:

 If the Dems weren't so radically opposed to pro life concerns, I think they would have seen a large move of voters in their direction.  But they have tied their horse strongly to the pro-choice position.

 

I am registered independent or non-partisan and have views on both sides of the aisle but I am pro-choice when it comes to abortion. That does not mean I am radically opposed to pro-life. I HATE abortion but I also think it is nobody else’s business what someone else does. Some people have abortions because it could be dangerous to have the baby which is okay with me. Some people have abortions because they are pieces of s#!t and its probably a good thing because not everyone should be a parent but it shouldnt be my decision. Doesnt mean I cant think youre a POS for doing it. Im sure many people on the pro-choice side think this way. Pro-life people need to actually start being pro-life and not just pro-birth. That means stop fighting against healthcare, medicare and other programs that help families in need. 

[Landlord]

2 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

 

I am registered independent or non-partisan and have views on both sides of the aisle but I am pro-choice when it comes to abortion. That does not mean I am radically opposed to pro-life. I HATE abortion but I also think it is nobody else’s business what someone else does. Some people have abortions because it could be dangerous to have the baby which is okay with me. Some people have abortions because they are pieces of s#!t and its probably a good thing because not everyone should be a parent but it shouldnt be my decision. Doesnt mean I cant think youre a POS for doing it. Im sure many people on the pro-choice side think this way. Pro-life people need to actually start being pro-life and not just pro-birth. That means stop fighting against healthcare, medicare and other programs that help families in need. 

 

 

 

I think TG is more speaking towards how progressives can and do often easily label someone as backwards/archaic/bigoted for holding any sort of a pro life position. I've experienced this plenty as a fairly progressive person who has fairly mixed perspectives on abortion - it's something I'm nervous to talk about with liberals because I've experienced enough negative reactions to it.