That Talent Question Again

[skersfan]

I am expecting three tough games on our schedule.  I do not take the Ohio State game as a corner turned yet.  I don't think we saw a 100% effort from Ohio State, and we are reading too much into it.  Yes we saw improvement, and that is all I really want.  But I do not think we can play on the level of a top ten team.  I think we ran into a team that carries a high ranking, but has major problems going on inside.  Eddie George said today, he felt there were real problems with Ohio State, he did not know what they were, but there were problems.  Bosa leaving was a major hit to this program, a Captain leaving in the middle of the season, there has to be some reason for that.

 

Personal oppinion is that Urban is gone after this year, due to the problems this summer.  

 

Not a dig at our game, but I feel we will have a better idea of what we have in the next 3 weeks.  We play the same as we did last week, with wins or near wins, I will feel more comfortable. If the Illini kick our butts or Michigan State comes in pushes us down, I don't want to read about how bad the coaches did or what ever.  This is going to take some time to get where we all want it to be.  I have seen this revolving door on this site so many times it is sickening.  Be patient, Coach Frost will get us there

 

I think we are getting in too big of a hurry and grasp at anything to show improvement.  I like the comments by Coach Frost, still a lot of work to do

[junior4949]

15 hours ago, skersfan said:

I am expecting three tough games on our schedule.  I do not take the Ohio State game as a corner turned yet.  I don't think we saw a 100% effort from Ohio State, and we are reading too much into it.  Yes we saw improvement, and that is all I really want.  But I do not think we can play on the level of a top ten team.  I think we ran into a team that carries a high ranking, but has major problems going on inside.  Eddie George said today, he felt there were real problems with Ohio State, he did not know what they were, but there were problems.  Bosa leaving was a major hit to this program, a Captain leaving in the middle of the season, there has to be some reason for that.

 

Personal oppinion is that Urban is gone after this year, due to the problems this summer.  

 

Not a dig at our game, but I feel we will have a better idea of what we have in the next 3 weeks.  We play the same as we did last week, with wins or near wins, I will feel more comfortable. If the Illini kick our butts or Michigan State comes in pushes us down, I don't want to read about how bad the coaches did or what ever.  This is going to take some time to get where we all want it to be.  I have seen this revolving door on this site so many times it is sickening.  Be patient, Coach Frost will get us there

 

I think we are getting in too big of a hurry and grasp at anything to show improvement.  I like the comments by Coach Frost, still a lot of work to do

 

I think people are reading too much into the bolded.  Let's be honest here, Bosa is a top 5 pick in the draft.  His stock wasn't going any higher if he stayed.  If you're not going to pay college athletes, then you shouldn't be surprised when they leave early considering the money that is at stake. 

[brophog]

16 hours ago, LumberJackSker said:

I think frost can eventually dominate the west. But beating whoever comes out of the east will be a challenge. Wisconsin has been very good for years but their record against Ohio State over the last 10 years is awful.

 

You can throw in Michigan and Penn St in, too, and they're really no better than about .500 recently against MSU. A huge part of Wisconsin's recent success has been they're weak cross side schedules. 

[InOmaha]

45 minutes ago, junior4949 said:

 

I think people are reading too much into the bolded.  Let's be honest here, Bosa is a top 5 pick in the draft.  His stock wasn't going any higher if he stayed.  If you're not going to pay college athletes, then you shouldn't be surprised when they leave early considering the money that is at stake. 

 

Yes, but he wasn't going to play either way (staying or going).  So he had to have left OSU to not only get surgery but to recover from it.  If he's enrolled at the University and finishing classes while also leaving the team, that's a different story then leaving school AND the team to rehab with a super specialist.

 

Bosa could have had his surgery, finished school, stayed on the team, gone through rehab, and worked out for the NFL.  How would that have dropped his stock?

[jaws]

44 minutes ago, junior4949 said:

 

I think people are reading too much into the bolded.  Let's be honest here, Bosa is a top 5 pick in the draft.  His stock wasn't going any higher if he stayed.  If you're not going to pay college athletes, then you shouldn't be surprised when they leave early considering the money that is at stake. 

 

Most of these games are won up front. If you take a top 5 player off any team in the country, it is going to hurt. I don't care that he was a team caption, they are missing him playing on the field. I also don't blame him for leaving the team after he was hurt, and I don't think most of the team faulted him for doing it either. 

[junior4949]

57 minutes ago, InOmaha said:

 

Yes, but he wasn't going to play either way (staying or going).  So he had to have left OSU to not only get surgery but to recover from it.  If he's enrolled at the University and finishing classes while also leaving the team, that's a different story then leaving school AND the team to rehab with a super specialist.

 

Bosa could have had his surgery, finished school, stayed on the team, gone through rehab, and worked out for the NFL.  How would that have dropped his stock?

 

If he would have done the bolded, he couldn't hire an agent.  By doing what he did, he more than likely does have an agent that is working to make sure he isn't just a top 5 pick but the overall number 1 pick. 

[junior4949]

57 minutes ago, jaws said:

 

Most of these games are won up front. If you take a top 5 player off any team in the country, it is going to hurt. I don't care that he was a team caption, they are missing him playing on the field. I also don't blame him for leaving the team after he was hurt, and I don't think most of the team faulted him for doing it either. 

 

I didn't say it wasn't hurting the Ohio State team.  However, I don't for one minute believe him leaving Ohio State to prepare for the NFL draft signals that there are underlying problems within the Ohio State program.  It was brought up by another poster that him leaving signaled problems within the program.  I don't believe that it does.   

[brophog]

18 hours ago, skersfan said:

I do not take the Ohio State game as a corner turned yet.

 

Depends on which corner we're looking at. Did we turn third? No. Did we pass first base? Yes. 

 

The NCAA may want to play politics and act like scoring margin shouldn't matter, but it is one of the best indicators of future success in an alternate possession game. Not only did we legitimately keep it close against Ohio St, but most of the other games on this schedule. The kinds of losses we are seeing, being mostly self imposed, are the kind that teams suffer early in an eventually successful administration. 

 

Ohio St is important because they weren't using us as a turnstile. Yes, they're not playing like one of the absolute best in the country right now, but they're still very, very good. They're still 10th in scoring, have a positive 1.0 ypp differential, and Haskins is completing 69.7% with a 170.6 rating. Yet, they punted 4 times and turned it over 3 times. 

 

We we didn't round the bases, but we got a hit. We haven't done that against this caliber of an opponent in a very long time.

 

 

[MyBloodIsRed16]

22 hours ago, jaws said:

 

Most of these games are won up front. If you take a top 5 player off any team in the country, it is going to hurt. I don't care that he was a team caption, they are missing him playing on the field. I also don't blame him for leaving the team after he was hurt, and I don't think most of the team faulted him for doing it either. 

Yeah I don't know how the Huskers would fair without one of their captions 

[Pedro G]

On 11/5/2018 at 9:59 PM, LumberJackSker said:

Neither callahan or pelini recruited like a top ten team. Sure they had players like suh and david but to say they recruited top tier talent just isn't true.

Callahan certainly did with his second recruiting class — was within the top five nationally I believe. His last class was heading that direction until his team fell apart, and the recruits knew his days as Nebraska’s coach were numbered and bolted. While on paper it showed him to be a great recruiter, he had his share of busts like Harrison Beck, and Marlon Lucky was never one of our better running backs. True he got guys like Suh, David and Prince, but I wouldn’t say he was the best at evaluating talent and finding the right fits. And of course he never developed his talent. But anyone to say N can never get top-10 classes is not true. 

[LumberJackSker]

1 minute ago, Pedro G said:

Callahan certainly did with his second recruiting class — was within the top five nationally I believe. His last class was heading that direction until his team fell apart, and the recruits knew his days as Nebraska’s coach were numbered and bolted. While on paper it showed him to be a great recruiter, he had his share of busts like Harrison Beck, and Marlon Lucky was never one of our better running backs. True he got guys like Suh, David and Prince, but I wouldn’t say he was the best at evaluating talent and finding the right fits. And of course he never developed his talent. But anyone to say N can never get top-10 classes is not true. 

That one top ten class he had also had like 30+ commits and that's why it was a top 10 class. Its average star rating was that good. Also david wasn't a callahan recruit. 

 

I doubt Nebraska could ever consistently recruit top ten classes. Not a lot of near by talent and Nebraska hasn't exactly shown the ability to lock down st Louis or kc. Nebraska or any big team in a big boy conference should be able to recruit top 25 classes in their sleep. I think if Nebraska could average around 15 together with an elite coach like frost and they could challenge anyone.

[Pedro G]

16 minutes ago, LumberJackSker said:

That one top ten class he had also had like 30+ commits and that's why it was a top 10 class. Its average star rating was that good. Also david wasn't a callahan recruit. 

 

I doubt Nebraska could ever consistently recruit top ten classes. Not a lot of near by talent and Nebraska hasn't exactly shown the ability to lock down st Louis or kc. Nebraska or any big team in a big boy conference should be able to recruit top 25 classes in their sleep. I think if Nebraska could average around 15 together with an elite coach like frost and they could challenge anyone.

I agree with you. While teams like Alabama and OSU have proven what top-10 recruiting classes can achieve, there are enough three stars out there who can get you to the top as long as you find the right ones who fit the system. Prince (can’t spell his last name) was one of Callahan’s three-star recruits, and he became an All American. Cody Green was a four star who we were hyping up, and TMart, a three star, was clearly the better QB. So as long as Frost finds the right three and four stars, the Corn’s  future looks very bright. 

[LumberJackSker]

Just now, Pedro G said:

I agree with you. While teams like Alabama and OSU have proven what top-10 recruiting classes can achieve, there are enough three stars out there who can get you to the top as long as you find the right ones who fit the system. Prince (can’t spell his last name) was one of Callahan’s three-star recruits, and he became an All American. Cody Green was a four star who we were hyping up, and TMart was clearly the better QB. So as long as Frost finds the right three and four stars, the Corn’s  future looks very bright. 

I know stars aren't everything but i think in the bcs era no coach has won a national title with out having top 10-15 recruiting classes. Oregon, Washington and Michigan State got close but still lost. I think frost is as good as a coach as anyone. But is he so good that he can beat OSU and or Michigan if they have elite coaching and talent? That's asking a lot. I'm not saying its impossible but its one hell of a mountain to climb.

 

I wonder if Nebraska fans would be ok if frost got Nebraska to the level where they were getting to the big 10 title game but lost the majority of them? 

[lo country]

1 hour ago, LumberJackSker said:

I know stars aren't everything but i think in the bcs era no coach has won a national title with out having top 10-15 recruiting classes. Oregon, Washington and Michigan State got close but still lost. I think frost is as good as a coach as anyone. But is he so good that he can beat OSU and or Michigan if they have elite coaching and talent? That's asking a lot. I'm not saying its impossible but its one hell of a mountain to climb.

 

I wonder if Nebraska fans would be ok if frost got Nebraska to the level where they were getting to the big 10 title game but lost the majority of them? 

You need talent.  No doubt.  But also good coaching.  This link shows 13 teams in 2018 that could make a run.  Two in particular are out-PSU and FSU.  Maybe losing Moorhead and Jimbo hurt more than expected.  As @LumberJackSker mentioned, you've got to get talent.  Talent and poor coaching (FSU at least year 1) or borderline talent, but great/goodcoaching and a few playmakers (Clemson 2016) or even OU this year can make a difference.  NU has the staff that can develop IMO.  Recruiting is trending upwards.

 https://thespun.com/college-football/college-football-sb-nation-blue-chip-ratio

 

 

[LumberJackSker]

12 minutes ago, lo country said:

You need talent.  No doubt.  But also good coaching.  This link shows 13 teams in 2018 that could make a run.  Two in particular are out-PSU and FSU.  Maybe losing Moorhead and Jimbo hurt more than expected.  As @LumberJackSker mentioned, you've got to get talent.  Talent and poor coaching (FSU at least year 1) or borderline talent, but great/goodcoaching and a few playmakers (Clemson 2016) or even OU this year can make a difference.  NU has the staff that can develop IMO.  Recruiting is trending upwards.

 https://thespun.com/college-football/college-football-sb-nation-blue-chip-ratio

 

 

Great article thanks. I remember when auburn won it a while ago with cam newton. I dont remember that being a juggernaut of a team but they had an elite guy in cam at the most important position, a stud freshman rb (dwyer?) and nick farley wrecking havoc on defense. I think this would be a good model for Nebraska to have. Maybe not like Alabama where you have future nfl dudes at every position. But being elite at a few spots can get you a long way. 

 

If Gene Chizik can win a title Frost has a shot.