That Talent Question Again

[BigRedBuster]

22 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

So...please explain why during the first half of the season our total defense ranked 100+ in FBS football.

 

Edit: And I'm asking that genuinely. What is the explanation? A bad case of "The Riley Quits?" Lack of motivation? Bad coaching?

 

You don't think that there can be an adjustment period when a new staff comes in and have new expectations and new scheme?  This can manifest itself in a lot of ways.  I think it's a valid point that this defense got very little in the form of actually good coaching over the previous 3 years.  I still think we are lacking in some positions in talent (edge pass rusher) but, I think Doman showed on Saturday that he might be an upgrade in that roll.

When there is a staff change from a previous total failure....well.....sometimes you get that.

 

Prime example.  Look at the difference in Jackson's play compared to his entire career here...up until probably the last 2-3 weeks.  Sometimes it takes kids a while to catch on with what is expected....and quite honestly....gain the confidence that they can actually do what is being asked of them.

 

Another example is Young.  Earlier this year, it was clear the kid had no clue on some plays what he was supposed to be doing.  The last few weeks it seems like it's starting to click in his head.

 

We have the physical talent on the team to compete with just about anyone on our schedule.  We now have a staff that is giving them the scheme to succeed and it can take time for the kids to catch up with the scheme.

 

Here's to hoping that Frost can keep improving the talent so that we don't just "compete" with a team like OSU that is extremely talented and having a slightly down year....but, that we actually beat those programs when they are at their top.....along with beating all the teams we should beat on a regular basis.

[ColoradoHusk]

33 minutes ago, junior4949 said:

 

The bolded really wasn't implied at all.  The 94' NC team wasn't built with top 5 or even top 10 recruiting classes.  A good/great coach will have teams performing above their class rankings which is what TO did.  Clownahan and Riley coached teams that were worse than their recruiting class rankings.  Bo pretty much coached teams to perform on par with their recruiting class rankings.  I know a lot of fans are excited and believe Frost is going to bring in a bunch of top 10 recruiting classes.  I don't see this as being the case.  I see us bringing in a bunch of 11-25 ranked recruiting classes with an occasional top 10.  However, I see him doing much more with the talent he brings in than the three previous coaching staffs.

Agree with you there.

[StPaulHusker]

11 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

OSU that is extremely talented and having a slightly down year

Oh to be 8-1 and having a down year.....

[Undone]

So it sounds like you're going with 'coaching' then if I hear you correctly, @BigRedBuster. I really want that to be the answer, I really do. I want to believe that this defensive staff is on par with or better than the defensive coaching we had over the past 12ish seasons. 

 

Assuming that's the case, then even just a small bump in average defensive recruiting levels will make this a good product on the field. 

 

My main contention though is that we will not even win the West next year unless we're averaging 500+ yards and scoring roughly 45 points per game in conference play. The horses aren't in the stable right now to look towards the relatively easy schedule next season and think we're competing in our division unless we have an offense that's constantly bailing out defensive struggles. Obviously, I hope I'm wrong.

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Undone said:

My main contention though is that we will not even win the West next year unless we're averaging 500+ yards and scoring roughly 45 points per game in conference play. The horses aren't in the stable right now to look towards the relatively easy schedule next season and think we're competing in our division unless we have an offense that's constantly bailing out defensive struggles. Obviously, I hope I'm wrong.

 

No, I don't agree with that.

[ScottyIce]

16 hours ago, The Dude said:

Fist things first, start consistently beating the teams we consistently out-recruit.  Wisconsin included.

Next year. Book it.

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, Undone said:

So it sounds like you're going with 'coaching' then if I hear you correctly, @BigRedBuster.

 

I think it's a combination of bad coaching from prior staff and adjustment period.

[The Dude]

1 minute ago, ScottyIce said:

Next year. Book it.

 

Are you saying 11-1 next year?

[Undone]

5 minutes ago, ScottyIce said:

Next year. Book it.

 

And on that train of thought, I really like that we play Wisconsin late in the season next year. Gives this rebuild all the more time to dial things in by that point to be able to beat Wisconsin.

 

On paper, not winning the West next year would seriously just be sad. We basically have the most favorable schedule you can really ask for. But we have to get over the hurdle of terrible special teams, constantly giving up 3rd & longs...the list goes on and on.

[junior4949]

5 minutes ago, StPaulHusker said:

Oh to be 8-1 and having a down year.....

 

Time will tell if it's a down year.  They play two good teams and one poor team the rest of the way.  The year they won the NC they lost at home by 14 to unranked Va Tech.  With as much of the season they have left to play, they might still be a playoff team. 

[Undone]

6 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

No, I don't agree with that.

 

Here's what I will say: Going up against Michigan State and Iowa in our last two games will tell us a lot about whether our defense has taken to its coaching and come together to form a significantly improved unit. 

 

If we hold those teams to under 30, I think those are wins. If we're giving up multiple 3rd & longs, tackling poorly (like we saw throughout much of the second half against Ohio State), and struggling to get to the passer like we did in games 2-7, it will be disappointing.

I'm really looking forward to those two games. Last Saturday ramped up the purpose of this team and the challenges that have been put in front of it.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Since Frost still needs two wins to match the record that got Riley fired, it's amazing we're having this conversation at all. 

 

But it proves that this is still an eyeball test. You can see something happening. The reason I brought talent up again is that the star recruiting system clearly isn't perfect. There are far too many variables in a high school game spread across the country to think you can keep score with recruiting stars. Pretty much every four and five star talent you bring in is going to be a teenager who's been treated like a god in high school, and how they deal with competition at the next level --- or just being away from home for the first time -- can change the talent equation. A coaching staff with a team concept and talent incubator can do a lot with the supposed difference between a three star or a four star. Or the role player who got overlooked entirely. There was a line of thinking around here (miss you CM Husker!) that Nebraska simply couldn't get skill players to come to Lincoln, and our only hope was a return to the run-first system that targeted specialized and less-coveted recruits. I don't think that's true at all.

 

So the talent isn't far off when you can get your guys heads in the game.

 

Well, except for speed. Like they say, you can't coach speed. Our defense really needs to recruit for speed. Then things will get interesting. 

[Undone]

4 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Since Frost still needs two wins to match the record that got Riley fired, it's amazing we're having this conversation at all. 

 

You started the thread. What's so amazing about having the conversation?

[Guy Chamberlin]

12 minutes ago, Undone said:

 

And on that train of thought, I really like that we play Wisconsin late in the season next year. Gives this rebuild all the more time to dial things in by that point to be able to beat Wisconsin.

 

 

Yeah, I know this team is growing and getting better week by week, but in hindsight it bugs me that we were looking for a moral victory against Wisconsin just a few weeks ago, when that team is currently unranked and clearly beatable. 

Just now, Undone said:

 

You started the thread. What's so amazing about having the conversation?

 

The 180 degree change in perspective from last season. 

[Moiraine]

12 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Since Frost still needs two wins to match the record that got Riley fired, it's amazing we're having this conversation at all. 

 

But it proves that this is still an eyeball test. You can see something happening. The reason I brought talent up again is that the star recruiting system clearly isn't perfect. There are far too many variables in a high school game spread across the country to think you can keep score with recruiting stars. Pretty much every four and five star talent you bring in is going to be a teenager who's been treated like a god in high school, and how they deal with competition at the next level --- or just being away from home for the first time -- can change the talent equation. A coaching staff with a team concept and talent incubator can do a lot with the supposed difference between a three star or a four star. Or the role player who got overlooked entirely. There was a line of thinking around here (miss you CM Husker!) that Nebraska simply couldn't get skill players to come to Lincoln, and our only hope was a return to the run-first system that targeted specialized and less-coveted recruits. I don't think that's true at all.

 

So the talent isn't far off when you can get your guys heads in the game.

 

Well, except for speed. Like they say, you can't coach speed. Our defense really needs to recruit for speed. Then things will get interesting. 

 

 

 

Star rating is supposed to show how talented players are during their recruiting cycle. What happens after that is based on hundreds of factors. The most important one probably is talent but there are other important factors that can’t be overcome by talent if they’re negative enough.